NVIDIA ‘Ampere’ 8nm Graphics Cards

Troezar · 31 Jan 2020 at 20:26

No doubt the next Nvidia cards will be good. As long as they have reasonable competition from RDNA2 we all win.

On the CPU side we all know Intel are going to come back hard with AMD pushing things forward. What a great decade we have to look forward to. Much better than the last stagnant one!

Calin Banc · 31 Jan 2020 at 20:28

nashathedog said:
I don't think that's ever gonna happen, We've already seen that AMD intend to screw us just as hard on pricing as Nvidia, The lack of competition allowed Nvidia to up their prices & as we saw with the Radeon VII & RTX 2080 AMD intend to match pricing to performance even if it's performance doesn't consistently keep up with the competitors card in question.

I think this fits best if we look at it from a price point/level view, not just the very best of the cards as those I guess have made a league of their own and perhaps AMD can't even compete.

5700xt is about 18% slower than 2080, while the 2080 is 63% more expensive or the AMD card cost about 62% the price of 2080. (close enough!)

5700xt is about 8% slower than 2070s while the 2070s is 25% more expensive or the AMD card costs about 80% of the price of 2070s.
5700xt is about 3% faster than 2070 while the 2070 is 18% more expensive or the AMD card cost about 85% of the price of 2070.

Numbers are from here, from standard cards:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-5700-xt-nitro-special-edition/
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-5700-xt-nitro-special-edition/27.html

5700 is also offering some nice performance for the money, but indeed, I don't think is that big.

Maybe they'll improve on those numbers or maybe not. Time will tell and perhaps we'll stop buying overpriced stuff... or maybe not.

Quartz · 31 Jan 2020 at 22:20

LambChop said:
Total guess work, but with the 2080Ti 30-40% faster, and the new 3080Ti say being around 30-40% faster than a 2080Ti or maybe more, do you think AMD is going to pull something potentially 80% faster to just keep up with a 3080Ti out of the next Navi ? Absolutely hell no.

Agreed. It won't be this coming generation - 'Big Navi' or whatever - but the next. AMD is getting its act together. AMD has a lock on console GPUs and is making money hand over fist on Ryzen and that translates to investment and that should translate to performance.

TNA · 31 Jan 2020 at 22:59

Quartz said:
Agreed. It won't be this coming generation - 'Big Navi' or whatever - but the next. AMD is getting its act together. AMD has a lock on console GPUs and is making money hand over fist on Ryzen and that translates to investment and that should translate to performance.

But that money is rather recent. Will take a few years for the R&D money from that to show up on cards.

GAC · 31 Jan 2020 at 23:16

still saying 2 years for them to drop something that beats nvidia's top card. hope im wrong but i just dont see them pulling it off just yet.

Jacky60 · 1 Feb 2020 at 11:43

GAC said:
still saying 2 years for them to drop something that beats nvidia's top card. hope im wrong but i just dont see them pulling it off just yet.

That'll be two years for AMD to release something that beats the 2080ti at the rate they're going. AMD are so far behind it's becoming a joke and their release schedule is pedestrian at best with an endless list of too little, too late cards that are broadly equivalent to Nvidia's last generation with a token discount. It's a brilliant way of losing mindshare and sales in the GPU space compounded by ludicrous marketing such as 'overclockers dream' and 'poor volta'.

TNA · 1 Feb 2020 at 12:00

Jacky60 said:
That'll be two years for AMD to release something that beats the 2080ti at the rate they're going. AMD are so far behind it's becoming a joke and their release schedule is pedestrian at best with an endless list of too little, too late cards that are broadly equivalent to Nvidia's last generation with a token discount. It's a brilliant way of losing mindshare and sales in the GPU space compounded by ludicrous marketing such as 'overclockers dream' and 'poor volta'.

I recon they will do it this year with RDNA2. But they will be right back where they were after 3000 series from Nvidia is out.

BigBANGtheory · 1 Feb 2020 at 14:28

GAC said:
still saying 2 years for them to drop something that beats nvidia's top card. hope im wrong but i just dont see them pulling it off just yet.

Depends which cycle they are competing against imho, I think they can beat current gen and then drop price when Nvidia come out with a higher spec.

DarrenM343 · 1 Feb 2020 at 15:14

BigBANGtheory said:
Depends which cycle they are competing against imho, I think they can beat current gen and then drop price when Nvidia come out with a higher spec.

Are you including RT with that thought? I'm not sure AMD can release something that beats the 2080 Ti on both raw performance and with an equivalent level of tech (RT). I reckon they're at least 2 years behind all things considered. They should however be able to beat the 2080 Ti minus the RT.
Looking forward to Ampere and also to see how close AMD do get, considering the different cycles they're in.

i'll be disappointed if NV don't at least double the RT performance with Ampere.

nashathedog · 1 Feb 2020 at 17:37

TNA said:
I recon they will do it this year with RDNA2. But they will be right back where they were after 3000 series from Nvidia is out.

^^ This makes sense, Big Navi should be able to match the 2080ti. With the GCN limits removed the potential performance will be decided by how far AMD dare to push it?

Dave2150 · 1 Feb 2020 at 18:39

Jacky60 said:
That'll be two years for AMD to release something that beats the 2080ti at the rate they're going. AMD are so far behind it's becoming a joke and their release schedule is pedestrian at best with an endless list of too little, too late cards that are broadly equivalent to Nvidia's last generation with a token discount. It's a brilliant way of losing mindshare and sales in the GPU space compounded by ludicrous marketing such as 'overclockers dream' and 'poor volta'.

Have you checked their financial news? AMD Is doing very well, despite choosing to not bother to go after the top end NVIDIA card for a few years.

In 2009, they had $5.28 Billion in debt. Today they are less than 500 million in debt. Lots of this has been fueled by console success and now the impressive Zen CPU sales. They've also massively increased their R&D.

I think AMD are well placed to overtake nvidia within the next few years, though I think it will take another two generations of GPU before they can exceed nvidia's top end offering consistently. R&D takes time, though AMD now has significantly more than before, fun things will happen

Gerard · 1 Feb 2020 at 18:46

Quartz said:
Agreed. It won't be this coming generation - 'Big Navi' or whatever - but the next. AMD is getting its act together. AMD has a lock on console GPUs and is making money hand over fist on Ryzen and that translates to investment and that should translate to performance.

They no longer have nintendo, think they're using a tegra or something along those lines now. They had the consoles for quite a while but people were always saying that money earned from them didn't count for much.

Grim5 · 1 Feb 2020 at 19:34

Gerard said:
They no longer have nintendo, think they're using a tegra or something along those lines now. They had the consoles for quite a while but people were always saying that money earned from them didn't count for much.

correct Nvidia supply all the Tegra X1 processors used in the Nintendo Switch. And there are rumours an update Switch will be released this year with the Tegra X2 (which would double or more than double performance)

Dave2150 · 1 Feb 2020 at 22:10

Grim5 said:
correct Nvidia supply all the Tegra X1 processors used in the Nintendo Switch. And there are rumours an update Switch will be released this year with the Tegra X2 (which would double or more than double performance)

Yeah, heard the new switch will also use nvidia. Nice consoles, though small (cheap) GPU, so not much profit to be made. PS4 sales and Xbox sell tens of millions more units, no doubt this will continue into the next wave of consoles, so AMD have the upper hand there.

Stand by what I said though, can't see AMD surpassing nvidia in graphics (at the top end) for another two architectures, due to how long it takes their invigorated R&D team to design awesome new architectures. No doubt they'll get there eventually.

As for cars, don't think nvidia is doing that well, as Tesla (self driving leader) uses their own in-house chips, as they were better than nvidia's offerings.

TNA · 1 Feb 2020 at 22:30

Dave2150 said:
As for cars, don't think nvidia is doing that well, as Tesla (self driving leader) uses their own in-house chips, as they were better than nvidia's offerings.

Jensen probably tried to take Elon from behind dry like he does with us. But Elon declined and told him to do one.

GAC · 2 Feb 2020 at 05:22

BigBANGtheory said:
Depends which cycle they are competing against imho, I think they can beat current gen and then drop price when Nvidia come out with a higher spec.

picking which generation to go against inst something they can do as they will be up against the 3000 series this year, next year 3000 series refresh and then 2022 4000 series maybe, which is when i expect amd to maybe get close to matching the current gen rather than being one behind.

BigBANGtheory · 2 Feb 2020 at 09:09

GAC said:
picking which generation to go against inst something they can do as they will be up against the 3000 series this year, next year 3000 series refresh and then 2022 4000 series maybe, which is when i expect amd to maybe get close to matching the current gen rather than being one behind.

Absolutely they can pick its one advantage AMD have entering a high perf market segment. Can they hold on to it no probably not but if they then compete on price and efficiency who cares if Nvidia have a better product if they charge the earth for it. More likely than not I see Nvidia hyping up big gains in RT performance which is ‘a nice to have’ only with most games limited by console hardware centric development.

nashathedog · 2 Feb 2020 at 10:10

Calin Banc said:
I think this fits best if we look at it from a price point/level view, not just the very best of the cards as those I guess have made a league of their own and perhaps AMD can't even compete.

5700xt is about 18% slower than 2080, while the 2080 is 63% more expensive or the AMD card cost about 62% the price of 2080. (close enough!)
5700xt is about 8% slower than 2070s while the 2070s is 25% more expensive or the AMD card costs about 80% of the price of 2070s.
5700xt is about 3% faster than 2070 while the 2070 is 18% more expensive or the AMD card cost about 85% of the price of 2070.
Numbers are from here, from standard cards:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-5700-xt-nitro-special-edition/
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-radeon-rx-5700-xt-nitro-special-edition/27.html

5700 is also offering some nice performance for the money, but indeed, I don't think is that big.

You're right it does look better when looking at it like that & with the 5700XT's performing so close to the VII's I have high hopes for RDNA2's performance.

Calin Banc said:
Maybe they'll improve on those numbers or maybe not. Time will tell and perhaps we'll stop buying overpriced stuff... or maybe not.

I wish we would all stop paying so much for GPU's. I'm being a bit of a hypocrite saying that as I bought an overpriced £800 Vega64 when they released, I won't do that again though. If big Navi could offer something priced at around £650 with 2080ti challenging performance or close to it it won't be so bad but with Nvidia taking the --80ti models pricing into the stratosphere I've not got high hopes, I've got my fingers crossed though.

Perfect_Chaos · 2 Feb 2020 at 10:29

When are we likely to hear about new Nv cards with full specs etc, anyone think GTC or is this likely anyway?

Satchfanuk · 2 Feb 2020 at 10:31

nashathedog said:
If big Navi could offer something priced at around £650 with 2080ti challenging performance or close to it it won't be so bad but with Nvidia taking the --80ti models pricing into the stratosphere I've not got high hopes, I've got my fingers crossed though.

I think you're right, if AMD can price RDNA2 around 2080/80S but with 2080ti performance, they will sell plenty of them and hopefully encourage a bit of sanity to return back into GPU price structures. It may even make nVidia rethink where they price their next gen, rather than just milking the enthusiast market for every penny they can.

The difficulty is, peoples perceptions of value have changed, thanks to companies like Apple. Consumers look down on 'cheaper' options as being inferior.

AMD have a tightrope to walk when it comes to pricing. Too low and people will think the products are crap because they are cheap. Too high and people will say they are a rip off.