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NVIDIA RTX 50 SERIES - Technical/General Discussion
- Thread starter scubes
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I always say electrical products should be idiot proof.
Recently over here a house burnt down because a child in the house bought a
3rd party phone charger from Temu and they had the charger under their pillow for some reason while it was charging their phone over night, it overheated and burnt down the whole house.
Now, yes is putting a phone charger under a pillow stupid? Absolutely, however howcome we don't hear many more of stories from Apple or Samsung 1st party phone chargers, there is zillions of them out there. Maybe if the product wasn't poorly designed then it would be idiot proof and not burn down houses
We’ve been discussing this in the thread over the last day or so.
It is a really confusing topic and difficult to even explain here, but the bulk of the info of this suggests that whatever the changes they have made to their cables (if any) they don’t have anything to do with the move from H+ to H++ (despite what Moddiy themselves are saying… which if true means they are being misleading, whether intentionally or recklessly).
If that’s correct, it means that the changes that Moddiy made (again - if any) were to correct / improve manufacturing processes that are not related to the newer H++ spec. In other words, their old cable was simply inconsistently made and prone to defects.
This is because the new H++ spec, so we are told, only mandated changes to the female side of the connectors (i.e. what the cable plugs into).
And now that Moddiy messaging is being reported without taking this sort of thing into account, causing even more confusion *sigh*
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Associate
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Sounds to me like they made an innadequate 12VHPWR cable, realised it wasn't good enough for the 50 series, released an updated one and just slapped the 12V-2x6 name on it despite there being no such thing. Thus confusing everyone.The manufacturer whose cable melted said that - im shocked
Truthfully, I think there is such a thing and you can call it such… it’s just a cable that meets the new “12V-2x6 / H++” cable standards which are… err, the same as the old standards
I had a look at my own cables earlier and it does have “H++” printed into it… which isn’t ‘wrong’ because it does accord with that standard.
… how anyone casual (not on any forum etc.) is supposed to be following this mess I have no idea!!
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Associate
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They can't make 2 different cables with differing power handling though, that's what specs are for, to prevent people from using something that might burn their house down. Their 12VHPWR cable needs to work on 50 series. If it doesn't, it's not up to spec.Truthfully, I think there is such a thing and you can call it such… it’s just a cable that meets the new “12V-2x6 / H++” cable standards which are… err, the same as the old standards
I had a look at my own cables earlier and it does have “H++” printed into it… which isn’t ‘wrong’ because it does accord with that standard.
… how anyone casual (not on any forum etc.) is supposed to be following this mess I have no idea!!
Corsair R&D guy says as much
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Caporegime
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All i can say is that during this debacle, many of us have learned a lot about 12v cables and stuff when honestly as PC gamers, we should not give a F about and should be concentrating on just how many framerates we can get from a PC gaming GPU card
Well, it’s a little awkward but actually they can label things in this way.
There are two standards: (A) “12VHPWR / H+” and (B) “12V-2x6 / H++”.
Each standard covers both (i) the male cable and (ii) the female connectors on the GPU and PSU.
The only changes, from (A) to (B), have been made to (ii) the female connectors on the GPU and the PSU.
Any cable that is compatible with (B) can be labeled “12V-2x6 / H++”.
Does that make sense now? It is confusing, I know.
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Associate
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Yes but they can't make any cable, be it labelled 12VHPWR or 12V-2x6 that isn't suitable for 50 series cards. It seems to me like they're just using this new name to try and wash their hands of any problems people have using their older cable on new cards. They've clearly messed up. No one else is doing this.
Depends, if it's a 4090 FE then it's still possible...
It's not so much the connector or even the power supplies, yes improvements could be made to those to mitigate problems, but ultimately it's down to how the device draws power. Specifically how it treats six separate 12v wires as a single 12v source so it has no idea if one of those wires is contributing 16% of its total power or 100%.
Yes, I agree.
I assume you are referring to Moddiy in which case, yes.
One possibility is that they are just trying to come up with an excuse to try and dodge responsibility later. Another possibility is that they are trying to sell more cables. Another is that they did make some improvements to the cables that are for safety purposes but these are irrelevant to the technical requirements of the spec. Or, all of the above.
I think a few others are saying “buy our new spec cables - safety standards have changed from H+ to H++, buy them now!” which is similarly a bit misleading but doesn’t go so far as to say “you should avoid using the old cables as they are of an outdated spec.”
Some manufacturers are also making other minor improvements, perhaps to justify their marketing of the new cables. See this from Seasonic…
Old cable:
New cable:
Both are technically H++ compliant… but it’s also true that they now have ‘new, different and safer’ cables.
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saw this on a French website
Well, with a 5070 being as fast as a 4090, these will be even faster, maybe as fast as a 5090!
So, a bit of a bargain, really.
Aye, thats so true now I think about it. Should be plug n play, its just Lego for Adults after all...
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I'd love to know who came up with applying the H++ designation to cables. I can't find anything official that differentiates a H+ cable from an H++ one. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the sellers that came up with the idea.
I think its PCI-SIG that sets out the rules for what can be labelled as H+ and H++ (which in the case of the cables is just chronological - if your previously H+ cable is made after the date of the new spec, you can then put H++ on it).
Specifications | PCI-SIG
pcisig.com
Regretfully you can’t (legitimately) access those specs without a very pricey membership…!
That sounds like a tacit admission that the original 12VHPWR spec has been an issue all along.
At this point, both of them had flaws, there's hardly any 50's out there and it's started already, whether it's this, that, his fault, shouldn't be running it in a SFFPC-despite 50 series shrink to fit, using existing 40 series psu's plugging straight into a new 5090/80, it's going to escalte the more they become available to buy.
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