Nvidia to limit hash rate of RTX3060 GPU's

[FoxEye]

@Tinek

But the point is, crypto navigates to where energy is cheapest, not where it's cleanest. Crypto doesn't care if it's using coal or solar. In the US a c-mining company recently saved a coal-fired plant from being mothballed, and now that plant's output is being used to mining crypto.

Why didn't they build a solar farm in Arizona instead? Why did they save a coal plant?

 

[Jono8]

From blackouts in Iran to US coal stations being bought by mining companies and recommissioned to produce cheap energy for crypto...

To a projected demand in 3 years of 50% of all power consumed by the EU...

If you can justify that you can justify anything.

Not sure why these arbitrary comparisons to a country or group of countries' power use keep coming from as they don't really mean anything.

Do you or your family put Christmas lights up?

https://phys.org/news/2015-12-christmas-energy-entire-countries.html

https://globalnews.ca/news/3917698/reality-check-how-bad-are-christmas-lights-for-the-environment/

Do you get equally annoyed about that?

 

[Tinek]

@Tinek

But the point is, crypto navigates to where energy is cheapest, not where it's cleanest. Crypto doesn't care if it's using coal or solar. In the US a c-mining company recently saved a coal-fired plant from being mothballed, and now that plant's output is being used to mining crypto.

Why didn't they build a solar farm in Arizona instead? Why did they save a coal plant?

What about local people living around that coal mine who actually might be happy they get new jobs in this difficult time? I am sure they don't care what it's being used for, as long as they have food on the table.
Anyway, the questions you're asking should be directed at US politicians - why did they decide it would be in their best interest to sell coal plant instead of facilitate building renewables? And what does it have to do with crypto? Someone wanted a power plant and bought it. What it will be used for is frankly meaningless. It's usually in politicians hands to steer things to renewables, which they just choose not to do. Look closer to home - UK and Woodhouse Colliery new coal mine. Politicians here claim we're so green and leading the world in renewables, meanwhile they're happy to let new coal mine be opened etc. Still, nothing to do with crypto as such.

 

[Efour]

Good. I'm glad crypto mining will be outlawed on environmental grounds.

 

[FoxEye]

Not sure why these arbitrary comparisons to a country or group of countries' power use keep coming from as they don't really mean anything.

Do you or your family put Christmas lights up?

https://phys.org/news/2015-12-christmas-energy-entire-countries.html

https://globalnews.ca/news/3917698/reality-check-how-bad-are-christmas-lights-for-the-environment/

For the last time then, regardless of how much energy crypto uses or waste, it cannot be criticised if there is a single other source of inefficiency or wastefulness, anywhere on the planet.

We must not criticise crypto until the world is literally perfectly efficient (minus crypto).

That's a fairly high bar to set for allowing discussion/criticism of crypto

Good. I'm glad crypto mining will be outlawed on environmental grounds.

Just when I was getting used to being the only nay-sayer in the entire thread

Totally agree tho. Will dance in the street if crypto is banned

 

[Tinek]

For the last time then, regardless of how much energy crypto uses or waste, it cannot be criticised if there is a single other source of inefficiency or wastefulness, anywhere on the planet.

We must not criticise crypto until the world is literally perfectly efficient (minus crypto).

That's a fairly high bar to set for allowing discussion/criticism of crypto


Just when I was getting used to being the only nay-sayer in the entire thread

Totally agree tho. Will dance in the street if crypto is banned

This is literaly a strawman argument...

 

[FoxEye]

What about local people living around that coal mine who actually might be happy they get new jobs in this difficult time? I am sure they don't care what it's being used for, as long as they have food on the table.
Anyway, the questions you're asking should be directed at US politicians - why did they decide it would be in their best interest to sell coal plant instead of facilitate building renewables? And what does it have to do with crypto? Someone wanted a power plant and bought it. What it will be used for is frankly meaningless. It's usually in politicians hands to steer things to renewables, which they just choose not to do. Look closer to home - UK and Woodhouse Colliery new coal mine. Politicians here claim we're so green and leading the world in renewables, meanwhile they're happy to let new coal mine be opened etc. Still, nothing to do with crypto as such.

So literally the only thing that matter is money.

Every justification basically comes down to "It's profitable, so why not? People can earn and spend money as they please."

"I am sure that they don't care what it's being used for"

That is just plain sad. We're supposed to be becoming sensitive to our wastefulness and our emissions. But of course we aren't. We're just looking for the next money printing scheme. That's what crypto is, quite literally.

 

[Jono8]

For the last time then, regardless of how much energy crypto uses or waste, it cannot be criticised if there is a single other source of inefficiency or wastefulness, anywhere on the planet.

We must not criticise crypto until the world is literally perfectly efficient (minus crypto).

That's a fairly high bar to set for allowing discussion/criticism of crypto

But the point is that it is just one of many ways we waste resources on totally pointless stuff.

I have already said how I too think its stupid and wasteful, but I have no strong feelings on crypto particularly due to the sheer amount of other **** that wastes just as much, if not more resources.

 

[danlightbulb]

Its fundamentally about fairness and opportunity.

The things that have made many many people rich are themselves not environmentally friendly nor ethical. We are all exploited daily in our lives, by the rich and by corporations and governments. Here is something that can redress the balance a little.

Unfortunately that thing is itself wasteful. Totally agree. But why should that opportunity not be taken because it is wasteful, when other rich people thrive on wastefulness and exploitation themselves?

 

[FoxEye]

This is literaly a strawman argument...

Not if you actually follow the conversation. Every single time I mentioned the energy wastefulness of crypto, @Jono8 said, "What about this industry? What about that wastefulness? You can't just single out crypto."

Ergo this logic will hold until everything non-crypto is entirely waste free. Prove me wrong.

 

[FoxEye]

Its fundamentally about fairness and opportunity.

The things that have made many many people rich are themselves not environmentally friendly nor ethical. We are all exploited daily in our lives, by the rich and by corporations and governments. Here is something that can redress the balance a little.

Unfortunately that thing is itself wasteful. Totally agree. But why should that opportunity not be taken because it is wasteful, when other rich people thrive on wastefulness and exploitation themselves?

So we're going to follow in the footsteps of the greedy and wasteful, because they did it, so should we?

That's literally an argument for going head first to our own destruction. Is that a good trajectory to follow?

"Its fundamentally about fairness and opportunity."

What's "fair" for the other species that we're endangering and wiping out? Is fairness just about earning more money and having nicer things?

 

[Jono8]

So literally the only thing that matter is money.

Every justification basically comes down to "It's profitable, so why not? People can earn and spend money as they please."

"I am sure that they don't care what it's being used for"

That is just plain sad. We're supposed to be becoming sensitive to our wastefulness and our emissions. But of course we aren't. We're just looking for the next money printing scheme. That's what crypto is, quite literally.

I think people are questioning your singling out of crypto when literally every frivolous thing we buy uses tons of resources to produce.

 

[danlightbulb]

So we're going to follow in the footsteps of the greedy and wasteful, because they did it, so should we?

That's literally an argument for going head first to our own destruction. Is that a good trajectory to follow?

"Its fundamentally about fairness and opportunity."

What's "fair" for the other species that we're endangering and wiping out? Is fairness just about earning more money and having nicer things?

In principle you're right, but in practice money is important. Do you deny this?

We plebs cant afford not to take these opportunities. If you don't want to, because principle override it, then that is fine.

However if governments or corporations try to stop this citing environmental concerns, do you really think they care about the environment, or do you think they care about protecting the system as they know it.

"Remember who the real enemy is".

 

[Tinek]

So literally the only thing that matter is money.

Every justification basically comes down to "It's profitable, so why not? People can earn and spend money as they please."

"I am sure that they don't care what it's being used for"

That is just plain sad. We're supposed to be becoming sensitive to our wastefulness and our emissions. But of course we aren't. We're just looking for the next money printing scheme. That's what crypto is, quite literally.

If it comes down to survival, local people will NOT care about environment etc. And rightfully so - survival tramples it all. If you want them to care about such noble things, you first need to make sure they have all basic needs covered. Care about environment and other things like that is (and always has been) reserved for the people that are rich enough to afford it. You can consider this sad but it is just a fact. And even in USA, which is considered a rich country, you still have lots of homeless people or people who have no jobs and trouble getting food, which are forgotten and ignored by governments. And that is the true sad part, I believe.

Still, none of that has anything to do with mining. You can check links posted above, with for example how much stupid Christmas lights are wasting. To complain about one thing and not the other is just hypocritical. Lets face it - most people complain only because they can't get new GPU and they blame miners for it (instead of blaming NVIDIA).

 

[FoxEye]

I think people are questioning your singling out of crypto when literally every frivolous thing we buy uses tons of resources to produce.

It's a thread about crypto.

Why should I raise issues about other industries in a thread about crypto?

Why should people justify crypto on the grounds that "other industries also have wastefulness"?

"Your honour, I don't believe it's fair to send me to jail whilst there are other criminals out there who haven't been caught. Therefore I demand you catch and imprison all those other criminals before you imprison me."

 

[Tinek]

Not if you actually follow the conversation. Every single time I mentioned the energy wastefulness of crypto, @Jono8 said, "What about this industry? What about that wastefulness? You can't just single out crypto."

Ergo this logic will hold until everything non-crypto is entirely waste free. Prove me wrong.

How I understand his statements, in my own words: "You can complain about everything that wastes things or you shouldn't complain at all - as otherwise you look hypocritical and it's not really constructive.".

 

[Efour]

In principle you're right, but in practice money is important. Do you deny this?

We plebs cant afford not to take these opportunities. If you don't want to, because principle override it, then that is fine.

However if governments or corporations try to stop this citing environmental concerns, do you really think they care about the environment, or do you think they care about protecting the system as they know it.

"Remember who the real enemy is".

It's nice to see people that admit it's just themselves trying to earn some money, as opposed to the numpties that go on about the future means of exchange and taking power from the government and financial institutions...
You have to have at least 500 bit coins to be that old school deluded.

 

[FoxEye]

In principle you're right, but in practice money is important. Do you deny this?

Are you in such need that the crypto money is the difference between putting the heating on or going cold?

You don't have to answer that, just making a counter point. I doubt many of us here will be relying on crypto income to meet our day-to-day needs.

Therefore I would argue most of us have room for principles. More room than most, quite probably, given we're having this discussion on the GPU forum of a tech enthusiast site

 

[danlightbulb]

It's nice to see people that admit it's just themselves trying to earn some money, as opposed to the numpties that go on about the future means of exchange and taking power from the government and financial institutions...
You have to have at least 500 bit coins to be that old school deluded.

I think that is a significant factor in this though as well.

When crypto really starts to threaten the institutions, you'll see what reaction there is from the generationally rich. And they will cite environmental concerns, or ethics or whatever else to convince the people, when really they are just protecting themselves.


BUt sure, im mostly in it for some extra cash. Happy to admit that. I need to buy a house and those are ever increasing, I need every bit of easy money I can get.

Therefore I would argue most of us have room for principles.

See above. No, actually I dont consider I have much room for principles in all honesty, I do have genuine concerns about my future financial security that I am trying to address. My only regret is not doing it sooner.



Oh also one thing to add - probably not many new miners here have actually made any money yet. Only 6 weeks in since most here started on their new 30 series, and so the capital costs will not yet have been paid back. If everything crashed tomorrow I'd be financial down depending on gpu resale cost.

 

[Tinek]

It's nice to see people that admit it's just themselves trying to earn some money, as opposed to the numpties that go on about the future means of exchange and taking power from the government and financial institutions...
You have to have at least 500 bit coins to be that old school deluded.

Mining is about earning money, nothing more, nothing less. Crypto currencies are NOT mining - that's just a small part of it and it has nothing to do with why they were created in the first place, etc. I don't believe we should be mixing these things. That said, crypto currencies are the future. I don't mean bitcoin or any other known currently, I mean the general idea. Paper money will be gone, we already use mostly digital money. Crypto is perfect to track all transactions and can potentially give governments much better control over population, money and even criminals. It's very hard to hide anything in blockchain - hence it IS the future that will come. Just not the crypto mining, that will go away in time, I believe.