Nvidia to limit hash rate of RTX3060 GPU's

[ljt]

KMS activators are classed as a virus by Windows, it doesn't mean its a virus, for one MS wouldn't want it to work, as it means illegal copy of Windows, free copy and the way the KMS works could be how some viruses attempt to access a system, but doesn't mean it is a virus.

It doesn't mean it isn't a virus either. It also doesn't address the issue of the authors of the mining plugins withholding their identity, and while the mining program is out of site of any anti malware/virus protection any update could include all sorts of crap being installed on your system without you even knowing. It's not something I am willing to take the risk on, so I'll never install any mining software.

Lets get this straight though. I really don't care what the average PC owner with a single GPU who decides to have a go at mining while he isn't gaming does, that's not really causing a problem with supply/demand and skewing the market, it's the industrial miners who are buying pallet loads directly from suppliers that are causing the big issues. However it doesn't really matter to me now anyway because I've taken myself out of the market as I'm not after a GPU any more and wont even own a discreet GPU shortly anyway.

 

[FoxEye]

In a word, yes.

Unfortunate as it is, my own financial security is more important to me, right now, than the environment.

You show me when people above me have done their proportionate bit, then I'll accept its my turn.

Have to applaud you for being honest. Again, not having a go (genuinely).

I think your stated position is accurate for the vast majority of human beings.

As @willhub said, if you start thinking about our actions as a species, our motivations, it can be quite depressing.

I guess I must like depressing myself

 

[Puppetmaster]

People thinking mining is exclusively the only reason why there is a lack of supply of gpus need to change their way of thinking. Many electrical devices are in short supply for a variety of reasons mostly related to covid and have been for almost a year. Miners are not using printers and ink or webcams to mine etherium yet the past year those along with a lot of other stuff has been near impossible to buy. Yes there is demand from miners but it isn't the only reason and in previous years when mining was just as profitable, we never had such a severe lack of stock as it is now.

 

[Doobedoo]

Well, seeing as that's not something I've done, I can safely ignore what you have to say I reckon. I actually am taking my "hard-earned" and using it to cut down my energy footprint. and even if I wasn't, pointing out that burning more energy and emitting more carbon is *a bad thing* would not be wrong.

In summary

That’s fine fella what you do with your money is of no concern to me neither is it what others spend money on including mining any concern to you.

I have solar panels and a battery but I don’t choose to hold myself above those that don’t.

Here have some words of wisdom from George Carlin

Spoiler: The planet is fine

See, I’m not one of these people who’s worried about everything. You got people like this around you? Countries full of them now: people walking around all day long, every minute of the day, worried… about everything! Worried about the air; worried about the water; worried about the soil; worried about insecticides, pesticides, food additives, carcinogens; worried about radon gas; worried about asbestos; worried about saving endangered species.

Let me tell you about endangered species all right? Saving endangered species is just one more arrogant attempt by humans to control nature. It’s arrogant meddling; it’s what got us in trouble in the first place. Doesn’t anybody understand that? Interfering with nature. Over 90% – over, way over – 90% of all the species that have ever lived on this planet, ever lived, are gone! They’re extinct! We didn’t kill them all; they just disappeared. That’s what nature does. They disappear these days at the rate of 25 a day; and I mean regardless of our behavior. Irrespective of how we act on this planet, 25 species that were here today will be gone tomorrow. Let them go gracefully. Leave nature alone. Haven’t we done enough?

We’re so self-important, so self-important. Everybody’s gonna save something now: “Save the trees! Save the bees! Save the whales! Save those snails!” And the greatest arrogance of all: “Save the planet!” What?! Are these ******* people kidding me?! Save the planet? We don’t even know how to take care of ourselves yet! We haven’t learned how to care for one another and we’re gonna save the ******* planet?! I’m getting tired of that ****! I’m getting tired of that ****!

I’m tired of ******* Earth Day! I’m tired of these self-righteous environmentalists; these White, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren’t enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world safe for their Volvo’s! Besides, environmentalists don’t give a **** about the planet. They don’t care about the planet; not in the abstract they don’t. You know what they’re interested in? A clean place to live; their own habitat. They’re worried that someday in the future, they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn’t impress me.

Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet, nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine; the people are ******! Difference! The planet is fine! Compared to the people, The planet is doing great: been here four and a half billion years! Do you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We’ve been here what? 100,000? Maybe 200,000? And we’ve only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over 200 years. 200 years versus four and a half billion. And we have the conceit to think that somehow, we’re a threat? That somehow, we’re going to put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that’s just a-floatin’ around the sun? The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us: been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drifts, solar flares, sunspots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles, hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worldwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages... and we think some plastic bags and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference?

The planet isn’t going anywhere; we are! We’re going away! Pack your ****, folks! We’re going away and we won’t leave much of a trace either, thank God for that. Maybe a little Styrofoam, maybe. Little Styrofoam. The planet will be here, we’ll be long gone; just another failed mutation; just another closed-end biological mistake; an evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet will shake us off like a bad case of fleas, a surface nuisance.

You wanna know how the planet’s doing? Ask those people in Pompeii who are frozen into position from volcanic ash how the planet’s doing. Wanna know if the planet’s all right? Ask those people in Mexico City or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble if they feel like a threat to the planet this week. How about those people in Kilauea, Hawaii who build their homes right next to an active volcano and then wonder why they have lava in the living room?

The planet will be here for a long, long, long time after we’re gone and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself ’cause that’s what it does. It’s a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed, and if it’s true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new paradigm: the Earth plus Plastic. The Earth doesn’t share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the Earth; the Earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the Earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place: it wanted plastic for itself, didn’t know how to make it, needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old philosophical question: “Why are we here?” Plastic, ********!

So the plastic is here, our job is done, we can be phased out now. And I think that’s really started already, don’t you? I mean, to be fair, the planet probably sees us as a mild threat; something to be dealt with, and I’m sure the planet will defend itself in the manner of a large organism. Like a beehive or an ant colony can muster a defense, I’m sure the planet will think of something. What would you do if you were the planet trying to defend against this pesky, troublesome species? Let’s see, what might... hmm... viruses! Viruses might be good. They seem vulnerable to viruses. And viruses are tricky; always mutating and forming new strains whenever a vaccine is developed. Perhaps this first virus could be one that-that compromises the immune system of these creatures. Perhaps a human immunodeficiency virus making them vulnerable to all sorts of other diseases and infections that might come along and maybe it could be spread sexually, making them a little reluctant to engage in the act of reproduction.

Well, that’s a poetic note. And it’s a start and I can dream can I? See, I don’t worry about the little things: bees, trees, whales, snails. I think we’re part of a greater wisdom that we won’t ever understand, a higher order. Call it what you want. You know what I call it? The big electron, the big electron. [Imitates electronic hum] It doesn’t punish, it doesn’t reward, it doesn’t judge at all. It just is and so are we... for a little while.

 

[muziqaz]

People thinking mining is exclusively the only reason why there is a lack of supply of gpus need to change their way of thinking. Many electrical devices are in short supply for a variety of reasons mostly related to covid and have been for almost a year. Miners are not using printers and ink or webcams to mine etherium yet the past year those along with a lot of other stuff has been near impossible to buy. Yes there is demand from miners but it isn't the only reason and in previous years when mining was just as profitable, we never had such a severe lack of stock as it is now.

So in 2016ish during the first crypto bubble, it wasn't miners who cause havoc in GPU market as well? I don't think anyone is claiming, that miners alone caused complete collapse of PC market, but there is no need for these "correctional" defensive comments, that miners are innocent

 

[FoxEye]

@Doobedoo I very much dislike that quote, because it absolves human being from any responsibility to make any attempt to clean up their act.

"The planet will heal no matter what we do; let's not worry about it."

In the meantime we will preside over mass extinctions, and possibly even render the planet uninhabitable for thousands of years (for complex lifeforms).

We are capable of destroying life that we are told evolved over billions of years (or was created; that's not the point) - we're capable of destroying it all in a mere few decades.

Do we want to? Or do we have the collective will not to ruin our own lands. I don't think we have the will. I think greed will overcome any higher purpose/motive.

I think greed is ultimately the most compelling human motivation. Always has been and always will be.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Not Convinced this idea will help gamers at all. I am sure hardcore miners will find a way around it anyway and so ultimately I think it will just hurt gamers trying to pull back a few quid on their gaming gpu. Also gamers with 1 or 2 GPUs per household are the ones wasting least energy because they (or at least in my case) use the expelled heat to heat their home and reduce heating bills.....
In the UK electricity is far cleaner than gas.

Also if miners can't sell on their old mining cards when they are obsolete it will just be a lot more silicon going in the bin rather than it being reused for gaming.

Ultimately if this does free up GPUs for gamers and help stop scalping then great....... But I can't help but feel this is just a marketing ploy by NV to make more money and won't benefit gamers at all and may even hurt them. I think it will certainly hurt the environment.

But it will undoubtedly help NVs profit margins which is the real reason imo.

With AMD closing the gap for gaming it may be a win for them if they become the only choice for the pc gamer who likes to dabble with bitcoin when pc is not in use.
Now I have the bug I don't see me buying a card which can't mine even tho I am a gamer 1st.

 

[Doobedoo]

@Doobedoo I very much dislike that quote, because it absolves human being from any responsibility to make any attempt to clean up their act.

"The planet will heal no matter what we do; let's not worry about it."

In the meantime we will preside over mass extinctions, and possibly even render the planet uninhabitable for thousands of years (for complex lifeforms).

We are capable of destroying life that we are told evolved over billions of years (or was created; that's not the point) - we're capable of destroying it all in a mere few decades.

Do we want to? Or do we have the collective will not to ruin our own lands. I don't think we have the will. I think greed will overcome any higher purpose/motive.

I think greed is ultimately the most compelling human motivation. Always has been and always will be.

We have a responsibility for sure but it’s largely born out of selfish interests is the points he’s making. But yes the Earth will heal itself it’s done it before unless we literally blow it out of orbit with those fantastic nuclear fireworks we dreamt up.

 

[Jimmy Weirdarms]

That’s fine fella what you do with your money is of no concern to me

You brought it up

neither is it what others spend money on including mining any concern to you.

That's not true in the slightest when it comes to climate change, polluting the commons, a whole host of other things. We don't live in isolated little bubbles.

I have solar panels and a battery but I don’t choose to hold myself above those that don’t.

This conversation says otherwise.

As for the Carlin quote - well that's fine if you're either a climate change denier or don't give a crap about humanity being able to continue to live on the planet. Or a lot of other animals for that matter.

 

[FoxEye]

We have a responsibility for sure but it’s largely born out of selfish interests is the points he’s making. But yes the Earth will heal itself it’s done it before unless we literally blow it out of orbit with those fantastic nuclear fireworks we dreamt up.

Does that mean we cannot empathise with any of the other forms of life on this planet?

That we only value anything - including all life here - for what it can give us?

So there is no need to preserve species for the sake of that species - even if it does not benefit humanity directly to do so?

I find that a very scary train of thought. It would mean that humanity is 100% incapable of actually caring about anything but themselves. I'm open to the idea that this is fundamentally true in most of us, but I would hope not...

 

[Doobedoo]

Does that mean we cannot empathise with any of the other forms of life on this planet?

That we only value anything - including all life here - for what it can give us?

So there is no need to preserve species for the sake of that species - even if it does not benefit humanity directly to do so?

I find that a very scary train of thought. It would mean that humanity is 100% incapable of actually caring about anything but themselves. I'm open to the idea that this is fundamentally true in most of us, but I would hope not...

It’s ultimately the conclusion he came too after many years of trying to raise awareness to important issues. If your familiar with his material you would understand.

It’s not right or wrong it’s his particular view of the world.

 

[4k4uNuNu]

The miners will find a way aound it, they gotta have their gold toilets.

 

[Lightnix]

Now there are rumblings of some kind of secure handshake between the silicon, BIOS and driver. If this means the card verifying a cryptographically signed driver before it allows it to work, and the scheme is actually implemented securely then miners might have a bit of a problem on their hands. Can't imagine it's great for the open source community, either, though.

 

[fs123]

The sad thing about all this is that if there is plenty of supply and miners shun the card due to poor hashrates then majority of gamers will only have the option of a 3060. What about crippling mining on the top end cards Nvidia? Or is that the cash cow that cannot be touched?

 

[Tinek]

We have a responsibility for sure but it’s largely born out of selfish interests is the points he’s making. But yes the Earth will heal itself it’s done it before unless we literally blow it out of orbit with those fantastic nuclear fireworks we dreamt up.

We literaly do not have enough of nuclear weapons to affect Earth's orbit in any meaningful way. In our scale of thinking, nukes are super powerful but in cosmic scale of things, they're meaningless - less than a mere sparks. And same with Earth as a planet and life on it - unless we unleash some self-replicating nano-machines that would just consume it a whole to replicate themselves, it'll be fine. Life will be fine too, long time after we're all gone. The main thing is that destroying environment, we're mostly hurting our own species and might just as well cause extinction of ourselves.

 

[Tinek]

Now there are rumblings of some kind of secure handshake between the silicon, BIOS and driver. If this means the card verifying a cryptographically signed driver before it allows it to work, and the scheme is actually implemented securely then miners might have a bit of a problem on their hands. Can't imagine it's great for the open source community, either, though.

So far I heard it only applies to Eth mining algorithm. Which is ridiculous as there's dozens of other cryptos using different algorithms that miners can use instead. NVidia just can't incorporate them all. I am more worried that this is a smoke screen of them trying to push a new source of income (mining cards) no matter the collateral. First they gimped pro use of home GPUs, then they gimp "mining" and people cheer for it. What will they block/remove/gimp next? Block FPS down to 60 on GPUs unless you pay to have it unlocked (subscription or buying more expensive cards)? I really wouldn't put it past NVidia, they love to milk the market when they see opportunity for it.

 

[Tinek]

The sad thing about all this is that if there is plenty of supply and miners shun the card due to poor hashrates then majority of gamers will only have the option of a 3060. What about crippling mining on the top end cards Nvidia? Or is that the cash cow that cannot be touched?

Fresh info reveals they will modify ALL GPUs they currently produce with it. 3060 is just the first. They will also change ID, so older drivers won't work on these new GPUs, even though for consumers it will look the same (e.g. RTX 3080 etc.). I wonder if it'll be possible to tell what you buy, so if one want to buy GPU for gaming and mining in idle, one can choose the right one and not gimped one. When I got my Vega 64 LC back in the days, I mined on it in idle and it paid for itself in few months. On current 6800 it's not profitable enough for me to bother but if I had 3080, I'd do the same for sure - it's a nice income that offsets high prices everywhere very nicely. But that can't be done well on gimped 3080, which - to me at least - makes it look much less attractive and might as well stick with AMD card.

 

[Lightnix]

So far I heard it only applies to Eth mining algorithm. Which is ridiculous as there's dozens of other cryptos using different algorithms that miners can use instead. NVidia just can't incorporate them all. I am more worried that this is a smoke screen of them trying to push a new source of income (mining cards) no matter the collateral. First they gimped pro use of home GPUs, then they gimp "mining" and people cheer for it. What will they block/remove/gimp next? Block FPS down to 60 on GPUs unless you pay to have it unlocked (subscription or buying more expensive cards)? I really wouldn't put it past NVidia, they love to milk the market when they see opportunity for it.

Yeah gamers (and non-mining GPGPU users, remembering some are scientists, artists, etc.) are stuck inbetween a rock and a hard place with this, you're right. No available cards or cards where the manufacturer still basically owns and controls it. Great choices, not! I'm guessing this will go the other way with the driver hacks like the one that let the P106 act like a GTX 1060 being blocked on the mining cards as well meaning when they're done for mining they're basically unmitigated e-waste.

On the other side of the coin, a big part of the reason mining has been able to expand like it has is because the resale of graphics cards at the moment basically makes them free for miners so something needs to be done to correct this perverse incentive. I'm not sure this is it, though.

 

[FoxEye]

We literaly do not have enough of nuclear weapons to affect Earth's orbit in any meaningful way. In our scale of thinking, nukes are super powerful but in cosmic scale of things, they're meaningless - less than a mere sparks. And same with Earth as a planet and life on it - unless we unleash some self-replicating nano-machines that would just consume it a whole to replicate themselves, it'll be fine. Life will be fine too, long time after we're all gone. The main thing is that destroying environment, we're mostly hurting our own species and might just as well cause extinction of ourselves.

We're wiping out other species and continue to lose species at a horrifying rate.

If you kill somebody you're not just "mostly hurting yourself" because you end up in prison. You also KILLED the other chap!!

If you wipe out other life on this planet you will indeed be hurting yourself, but the other chap will be DEAD!

That's not "mostly hurting yourself" Unless, as said, you can't empathise with the other chap who you killed. Then, indeed, you might simply be miffed at having to go to jail.

 

[Tinek]

Yeah gamers (and non-mining GPGPU users, remembering some are scientists, artists, etc.) are stuck inbetween a rock and a hard place with this, you're right. No available cards or cards where the manufacturer still basically owns and controls it. Great choices, not! I'm guessing this will go the other way with the driver hacks like the one that let the P106 act like a GTX 1060 being blocked on the mining cards as well meaning when they're done for mining they're basically unmitigated e-waste.

On the other side of the coin, a big part of the reason mining has been able to expand like it has is because the resale of graphics cards at the moment basically makes them free for miners so something needs to be done to correct this perverse incentive. I'm not sure this is it, though.

I do not think manufactures can nor should do anything to stop the miners. It's not their job. What will sort it out for good (at least with Eth) is when these crypto coins switch from proof of work to proof of stake. GPU mining won't be needed then. Eth supposedly is switching middle of this year, which also makes NVidia's announcement a bit suspicious, as that would mean they will block mining Eth only few months (at best) before it's a history anyway.