Obama Health Care Speech - LIVE

naffa said:
I thought that was an absolutely stunning address. He was very very clear with what he was saying, leaving very little room for misinterpretation and just got straight to the point. I also loved the fact he was saying that he will listen to and use good ideas, no matter whether they're born from Democratic ideology or Republican ideology (something I massively respect and something seldom found in the UK). I also couldn't believe that some of the things he was saying were bring the Republicans to their feet (fair enough, a lot of it didn't, but the fact some did is a big deal).

I just feel so happy after watching that, now it feels like America really does have a leader. I almost feel proud (:p) to see him standing there and acting like a true leader, something I haven't felt in a while. For the record, I am not a nationalist and feel no desire to ever be patriotic, I'm a socialist.
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Couldn't have put it better myself :)
 
It is rare that you see such a skilled orator in the upper echelons of leadership any more. I think the advent of modern media management has diminished the individual's requirement to be proficient at conveying their message directly to their audience. Obama is a clear exception, and it is a breath of fresh air.

On the obverse Bush and Berlusconi are prime examples of bottom-draw, public drivellers, who are positively objectionable to listen to.
 
drunkenmaster said:
The biggest issue is theres loads of private hospitals in the states with facilities public healthcare can't afford, and too few public state hospitals to cope with the majority of private healthcare people stopping paying for theres to go for free healthcare. So you've got, lets just take random numbers out of the air, 500 private hospitals and 300 free ones now, and all the free ones are massively overcrowded already. What they are doing is taking 400 of the private hospitals patients away, dumping them into overcrowded hospitals and seeing lots of private hospitals that just literally aren't set up for large numbers of patients, closing with many jobs lost and most people having worse healthcare purely down to too many people and not enough facilities.
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So to summarize what you're saying is that there aren't going to be enough 'free' hospitals to cope with all the extra patients on this new Medicare for all system?
 
drunkenmaster said:
lol, just look at any NHS type service, they don't come in on budget, you can add 40% for emergency problems funds and overspending and you'd still go over budget.


Only caught the last few lines of the speech, which didn't say anything. Everything I've seen on the health plan is, good idea, good "wishes", practice is awful though and it will just become a huge and massive beaurocratic nightmare with massive cuts all over.

The biggest issue is theres loads of private hospitals in the states with facilities public healthcare can't afford, and too few public state hospitals to cope with the majority of private healthcare people stopping paying for theres to go for free healthcare. So you've got, lets just take random numbers out of the air, 500 private hospitals and 300 free ones now, and all the free ones are massively overcrowded already. What they are doing is taking 400 of the private hospitals patients away, dumping them into overcrowded hospitals and seeing lots of private hospitals that just literally aren't set up for large numbers of patients, closing with many jobs lost and most people having worse healthcare purely down to too many people and not enough facilities.

They also simply don't have enough people in place to jump straight into a new healthcare system. THink of our NHS and how many people are involved in deciding who gets what, how many nurses and doctors are around, how many beds there are, how many physical buildings there are for these people to work in. In a single day they will enact a bill that lets people get free healthcare, but they don't have the man power or people from doc's/nurses, paper pushing people, not even cleaning staff and equipment.


Theres also the millions of people with problems that go untreated because they can't afford to get treatment or don't want to pay an excess/increased premiums, all come out the woodwork on the same day looking for help. It will be a disaster for a long time, and will take way more money than they guessed to get back on track/ Its like the NHS, the system is too fair ingrained into society to change on a fundamental level.
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I don't know enough about everything else you said to address it. But for the timescale, he said the changes will happen in 4 years time. So they have enough time to do it properly.
 
mr.sly said:
I don't know enough about everything else you said to address it. But for the timescale, he said the changes will happen in 4 years time. So they have enough time to do it properly.
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doesn't that depend on nothing going majorly wrong in those 4 years and them loseing the election.
 
Tefal said:
doesn't that depend on nothing going majorly wrong in those 4 years and them loseing the election.
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I guess as soon as the bill is signed everything will be set in motion. And if they lost the next election the new government would have to reverse the bill.
 
mr.sly said:
I don't know enough about everything else you said to address it. But for the timescale, he said the changes will happen in 4 years time. So they have enough time to do it properly.
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Not really, no.

The NHS worked in the UK because there was a MASSIVE pool of surplus doctors from Asia, we hired, well, all of them, threw them in at the deep end and opened up free healthcare. This was for a relatively small country, the states are simply wanting to, even adding all the doctors from private healthcare, of which you'll find a lot of senior doctors choosing to take early retirement with plenty of cash to live off, simply not enough people as suddenly you're throwing 60/70million people into treatment with less facilities and no new doctors.

There isn't a spare pool of newly trained asian doctors to tap into this time, nor nurses, nor enough places for them to work.

NHS hospitals and only private hospitals are very different, private hosiptals aren't economical, they aren't run on wards but private rooms, meaning far fewer patients per doctor, meaning the buildings and facilities simply aren't capable of being economically viable to be "mass healthcare" hospitals where the goal is cram as many beds into a ward with as few doctors as possible to make it the cheapest it can be.

So there will literally be hospitals closing down left right and centre all over the states, yes new ones will open, but how fast and at what cost. Well infact they probably will use many of the private hospitals, and spend years and billions refurbishing them while they take massive losses and go WAY over budget.

Now, as someone on the BBC said after, if its a massive bluff and all that comes out of it is better insurance as the votes controlled by insurances companies agree to a bill thats inbetween a NHS and what there is now, thats a positive outcome. IE a comprimise is met where the insurance companies are so scared of a full on NHS they happily agree to lift caps in treatment and make getting treatment for pre-existing conditions much easier, and insurance much cheaper. That would be a big win, and ultimately what the states needs.


Remember, theres circa 40million who well, are said to be untreated, though anything immediately life threatening does get treated for free, but 40million who don't have day to day care for long term illness. But you've also got another 30-40mill people WITH insurance, or who qualify for healthcare who don't use it because the more they make claims, the more they pay next year, etc, etc, etc, the more problems with high premiums for pre-existing problems in the future. Same thing happened here, before the NHS, a bad toenail or a bit of a cold, people stayed at home. The second the NHS opened everyone and their dog went down to get checked out, we had extra facilities and a massive increase in doctors and nurses when the NHS opened its doors, the USA is likely to have less doctors, same amount of nurses as now, less building space and 50% more patients than seek treatment now.
 
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I don't think there's going to be this massive shift you're describing. 90% or 95% of people won't even be switching their insurance from what they have now according to Obama's speech. So I don't think there's going to be this mass closer of private hospitals and a run on public hospitals.
 
Excellent politician,excellent speech, he just has that something that makes you want t listen to him.

This may surely improve the healthcare but wont it affect other areas via cutbacks? He cant just pull dollars out of his ass. Im not an expert but doesnt there have to be a compromise somewhere? Being the president theres only so much he can do with limited resources.

Unless real life politics is different to that of the wire (Carccetti ***);P.
 
My compliments to Obama for delivering the speech.. Thing is a lot of Americans are dead set against healthcare reform.. Too many people against socialism in any form whatsoever over in the USA. Me instead of we.
 
thedoc46 said:
My compliments to Obama for delivering the speech.. Thing is a lot of Americans are dead set against healthcare reform.. Too many people against socialism in any form whatsoever over in the USA. Me instead of we.
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The problem is they were okay with big spending George W. Bush yet he was never slandered as a socialist.
 
"The guy who yelled "You lie!" during President Obamas speech was Rep. Joe Wilson, Republican of South Carolina. Eight years of George W. Bush and no Democrat EVER disrupted any of his addresses to Congress"
 
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