Obesity is not a choice

[R.P.L]

But that's incorrect, firstly in western countries it's not some people - it's most people, because around 65%+ of adults are overweight.

Secondly, if the individual is to blame, how do you explain the Italian obesity epidemic?

Italians have always been healthy, the Mediterranean diet has been the benchmark for a healthy diet, yet why have scores of Italians suddenly started becoming obese in the last 10 years?

What measurable thing has changed, which has caused this decline in the health of Italians?

Alright, 'most' people.

You're just not understanding the point I'm making. I'm pretty sure I even acknowledged the correlation between availability of unhealthy food and obesity before. People were irresponsible or lazy before and now they have enough food that their inadequacies can manifest themselves in the form of obesity. I agree with that. That correlation doesn't make it society's responsibility though. If someone dumps a load of heroin on my doorstep and I take it and get addicted, that's my fault.

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM

 

[AHarvey]

But that's incorrect, firstly in western countries it's not some people - it's most people, because around 65%+ of adults are overweight.

Secondly, if the individual is to blame, how do you explain the Italian obesity epidemic?

Italians have always been healthy, the Mediterranean diet has been the benchmark for a healthy diet, yet why have scores of Italians suddenly started becoming obese in the last 10 years?

What measurable thing has changed, which has caused this decline in the health of Italians?

There are so many factors, transport, jobs changes, social media/internet/online entertainment, changes to the food themselves, mental health issues, health issues, medication, smoking, drinking etc

Everyone is different and so will their individual reason for gaining weight.

 

[Jono8]

There are so many factors, transport, jobs changes, social media/internet/online entertainment, changes to the food themselves, mental health issues, health issues, medication, smoking, drinking etc

Everyone is different and so will their individual reason for gaining weight.

It's basically cake though.

Sorry, i know that is being flippant, but i think it is essentially true. It is crisps, chocolate, sweets, cakes, ice cream. Snacks essentially.

Are they tasty and brilliant? Absolutely. Do we need them, when we are eating good meals for breakfast, lunch and dinner? Absolutely not.

 

[Drumroll]

It's basically cake though.

Sorry, i know that is being flippant, but i think it is essentially true. It is crisps, chocolate, sweets, cakes, ice cream. Snacks essentially.

Are they tasty and brilliant? Absolutely. Do we need them, when we are eating good meals for breakfast, lunch and dinner? Absolutely not.

This. Poor food choices, lack of exercises, and the once a week "treat" now happens before and after meals and sometimes even replacing it.
For example, pizzas in Italy aren't loaded with toppings. It's a nice balance, and the ingredients, fresh. But when you see a Domino's pizza or similar, border to border with greasy cheese (not mozzarella), BBQ sauce, tomato sauce (made with 20 odd ingredients), and many other fat rich ingredientes. Ir compare How the Big Mac has grown through the years: same as the population's waist line.

 

[Felon]

Alright, 'most' people.

You're just not understanding the point I'm making. I'm pretty sure I even acknowledged the correlation between availability of unhealthy food and obesity before. People were irresponsible or lazy before and now they have enough food that their inadequacies can manifest themselves in the form of obesity. I agree with that. That correlation doesn't make it society's responsibility though. If someone dumps a load of heroin on my doorstep and I take it and get addicted, that's my fault.

I understand the point you're making I just think it's poorly informed, and I disagree with it.

The Heroin analogy is flawed from the start, because society itself has deemed it reasonable to make Heroin a class A drug which is illegal and highly controlled.

I think that the fact we've allowed our food chain to become so out of control, and subject to the money-making interests of the food industry is societies responsibility. When people sit back and blame obese individuals for becoming addicted, they're ignoring the root cause, and whilst they continue to do this the problem gets worse and worse (as it is doing)

There are so many factors, transport, jobs changes, social media/internet/online entertainment, changes to the food themselves, mental health issues, health issues, medication, smoking, drinking etc

Everyone is different and so will their individual reason for gaining weight.

The interesting thing about the Italians though, is that adult Italians are roughly still very healthy, the frightening thing is Italian children are overtaking Americans in the obesity table.

When you look at what's changed, they're replacing their traditional Mediterranean diet with a western diet, that's the big thing that's changed.

Obesity epidemics follow western diets.

Japan and Korea have modern transport, stress, social media, internet, online entertainment. But they don't have the western diet, that's the one big thing that's different.

 

[AHarvey]

It's basically cake though.

Sorry, i know that is being flippant, but i think it is essentially true. It is crisps, chocolate, sweets, cakes, ice cream. Snacks essentially.

Are they tasty and brilliant? Absolutely. Do we need them, when we are eating good meals for breakfast, lunch and dinner? Absolutely not.

In a lot of cases, you're spot on, it's convenience foods. Easy foods to grab and eat which is what a lot of people have because it's cheaper than healthy foods, it easier around busy lifestyles and it's great for the lazy.

Borderline Personality Disorder, for instance, you have a near-constant need to self-harm if things are bad, and a form of self-harm is overeating. For others with autoimmune issues or mobility issues then exercise or the lack of ability to complete exercise is the issue.

The interesting thing about the Italians though, is that adult Italians are roughly still very healthy, the frightening thing is Italian children are overtaking Americans in the obesity table.

When you look at what's changed, they're replacing their traditional Mediterranean diet with a western diet, that's the big thing that's changed.

Obesity epidemics follow western diets.

Japan and Korea have modern transport, stress, social media, internet, online entertainment. But they don't have the western diet, that's the one big thing that's different.

That's a very good point, diet, and maybe genetics as well could also play a part.

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM

 

[Jono8]

I'd argue that many people are purposely staying away from all that, but instead what meals they do eat are far from good... So many people that now use Just Eat, Hungry House and all the other easy, convenient takeaway places (not really takeaway, more just delivery) instead of doing up an actual properly balanced meal with all the right numbers in all the right places, including portion size... seriously, how many people are getting takeout for there to be so many different apps and services?

I disagree completely. Throughout my entire life, all i see is people snacking and diving into biscuit tins at every opportunity etc.

You could have a dominos pizza every day as your only meal and you likely wouldn't become obese. You might not be all that healthy, granted, but the physics are simple.

The problem is people eating a whole host of crap on top of their meals.

No doubt healthy meals will help, and eating well will naturally make your body healthy as you will get the whole host of vitamins and nutrients your body needs.

Healthy meals on their own will not and does not solve the issue we have. It is the snacks, the cakes, the ice cream, the sweets, and the chocolate bars. These are no longer seen as treats. Ice cream is no longer seen as something you might have once or twice a year on holiday etc. People eat all that **** all day, every day now.

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM

 

[Jono8]

I don't do any of that, and I'm still fat.
Comes from eating big burgers and lots of ***** like pizza.


I do believe you are being disingenuous, sir... though I'm not calling you a liar.

Some of their Small size pizzas (with Classic Crust) have over 1200 calories in just the 3-slice portion they list... I don't know anyone who orders a pizza and has only three slices of it, particularly a Small one, and especially not at Domino's ******* prices!
https://corporate.dominos.co.uk/Media/Default/Corporate Responsibility/Food/UKNutritionalsRegularMozzarella.pdf?v=639302


OK, let's look at some nice, healthy foods...
https://www.shape.com/healthy-eatin...iving-foods-they-have-more-calories-you-think


Oh... nothing to do with all-you-can-eat restaurants, or anything, then?

Well, obviously if you eat ridiculous amounts of anything it will make you fat.

I was just making the point that, just eating healthy meals doesn't help if you then eat a load of biscuits throughout the day. Then, conversely, you could eat like crap, but just not in huge quantities but still be thin.

There was an episode on Supersize vs Superskinny, where a chap literally just had tea with 6 sugars in each for his meals, and a bit of toast. He was the super skinny one.

So he didn't eat healthy meals at ALL, but he was still thin. That could apply to anything.

I don't know any people who don't snack at all that are fat .

 

[dowie]

You could have a dominos pizza every day as your only meal and you likely wouldn't become obese. You might not be all that healthy, granted, but the physics are simple.

Thats the point that often seems to get missed or ignored or simply just not understood by some in threads like this. Not that I'm arguing that losing weight is simple on a personal level any more than say quitting smoking just requires someone to stop buying cigarettes etc...

But the basics of simply not consuming excess calories are fairly straightforward, calorie deficit = you will lose weight etc... even if you're eating unhealthy food.

From my own experience, i know plenty of people who eat healthy meals, but are still fat, and it is because of the constant snacking. On the flip side, I don't know any people who don't snack at all that are fat .

Large portion sizes too, one girl at uni was bit fat (by standards back then) - she was adamant that she ate healthily and ignoring alcohol consumption and late night curries/kebabs (which plenty of non-fat students indulge in too) she was cooking foods that ought to have been healthy, plenty of salad/veg, pasta etc.. except when she'd cook pasta she'd have a huge portion or when she cooked a baked potato she'd load it with cheese - the portion sizes were large and combine that with her lack of participation in sport and the fact she brought a car to uni with her and drove everywhere = tubby girl at an age when most people were generally slim even if leading otherwise unhealthy lifestyles.

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM

 

[Dave M]

Some of their Small size pizzas (with Classic Crust) have over 1200 calories in just the 3-slice portion they list... I don't know anyone who orders a pizza and has only three slices of it, particularly a Small one, and especially not at Domino's ******* prices!
https://corporate.dominos.co.uk/Media/Default/Corporate Responsibility/Food/UKNutritionalsRegularMozzarella.pdf?v=639302

Personal and small are for the whole pizza, not 3 slices. Attention to detail is a must if you are calorie counting - which is why there are so many alternative diets that claim you don't need to.

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM

 

[Nasher]

If you cut the pizza in half, you can have twice as much.

 

[dowie]

You could have a dominos pizza every day as your only meal and you likely wouldn't become obese. You might not be all that healthy, granted, but the physics are simple.

OK, so a whole small pizza is still 1200+ if you go for the Veggie Volcano, Classic Crust Sizzler is 1335. That's still a **** of a lot of calories!

It really isn't, if you eat 1200 -1335 calories a day then you're likely going to have a calorie deficit! @Jono8 is correct here!

If you cut the pizza in half, you can have twice as much.

 

[Felon]

The thing about calorie counting, is that if you have a healthy diet that's high in fibre, fruit, veg and lean meat you don't actually really need to count calories, because it's very very difficult to over eat in the first place. That's because real food actually fills you up, and provides a very high sensation of satiety.

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM

 

[dowie]

Depends on age and level of activity. Some people need a lot less than the suggested 2500, but what do doctors know, eh?

You seem to have misread the post:

"if you eat 1200 -1335 calories a day then you're likely going to have a calorie deficit"

For most people - 1200 - 1335 is going to be a calorie deficit! Honestly this isn't hard to follow but you seem to try to make it hard or pretend something else has been said.