OcUK Photo Comp - THE FUTURE ...
- Thread starter A.N.Other
- Start date
Soldato
This sub forum is a shadow of its former self, it's pretty much dead so the competition reflects this. The varied themes I personally always thought were a good thing as it does push you to consider the theme and get creative. I've not seen one theme picked that has given any one photographer an advantage over everyone else? I don't enter anymore as I just don't have the time to dedicate to an entry. To be honest I don't participate much at all in here anymore, there's little photography discussion of merit and what little there is soon gets derailed by irrelevant gear related rubbish.
Soldato
For mods adding polls, I can't speak directly for any, but I'm pretty sure it would be pretty easy to get one to sort it out.
It's not a massive logistical competition, and one that we could sort out fairly easily I feel.
The irony here is that if everyone thinks this way then no real photography discussion would actually occur. By having such a bleak outlook, then you in yourself are helping contribute to the lack of photography discussion.
kd
It's not a massive logistical competition, and one that we could sort out fairly easily I feel.
The irony here is that if everyone thinks this way then no real photography discussion would actually occur. By having such a bleak outlook, then you in yourself are helping contribute to the lack of photography discussion.
kd
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Soldato
Tis' a very good point.
I agree, this used to be a great place to learn and ask questions but I personally feel it's one of the last places I would ask. It seems very cliquey now to me and more about gear snobbery.
I mean you certainly can't ask about any processing techniques in here, it's all so highly secret. Even if they did learn the technique off someone else
If that seems harsh sorry, but when was the last time any of the more gifted Photographers on here write a guide or offer anything for anyone of a lower ability/experience to learn from. For all the negative talk TP get's for being too 'great photo' the experienced members on there do offer plenty of info and technique advice/tutorials for the rest of us to learn from.
How are you going to draw anyone in without it and such a closed shop
I'm not digging at anyone, it's just how this sub section feels to me. You can get good advice on gear buying at that's about it. One time it was buy a 40D now it's a D800E
Thanks for the responses so far. We're going to give it a few days and then discuss our thoughts and opinions before deciding anything. Keep posting your ideas and comments
This has never really been an issue before due to the number of people entering the competition. Only when you have 10 people actually submitting an image does this get a chance to occur. I do agree that nowadays we have a minority that win the majority of rounds and hence decide the following themes.
P&V suffered greatly some years back with a mass exodus of contributing users. In reality, it has never truly recovered. With the creation of a large number of themed 'post your photo here' threads, it has really impacted the number of things posted and the level and quality of critique received. When people used to post their own threads, this was a different kettle of fish. There are many contributing factors, though, this is simply one that the judges have thought about over the past months.
This is an increasingly serious issue. The forum generally exists as a 'spec me' board and, as you say, has very little photo posting or critique - high level or low level.
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The loss of Mr Jones, Raymond (for the most part) among others has killed the forum to be honest and it's been a bit of a vicious cycle. There are only a couple of photographers left on here who's work I genuinely enjoy, but even then I don't remember the last conversation I had on here that was about photography rather than photographic equipment.
With regard to the competition, I also vote go more generic - B/W Portraiture, Long Exposures etc. as quite often the ideas end up with generally kitch entries. Still, I think fixing the competition rather than the subforum is a bandaid over the actual wound.
I would actually bring it into more of a "Photo of the month" type deal. People post someone else's photo into the thread to nominate them, then in the last week of the month, a new thread with a poll is started for the forum to vote on the individual photos. That would likely bring the standards up - pro photographers generally can't be bothered to randomly shoot some theme just to get in on an inactive competition, and then even keen semi-pros/amateurs like me have enough on our plate to be shooting without a random theme to add to the plate.
With regard to the competition, I also vote go more generic - B/W Portraiture, Long Exposures etc. as quite often the ideas end up with generally kitch entries. Still, I think fixing the competition rather than the subforum is a bandaid over the actual wound.
I would actually bring it into more of a "Photo of the month" type deal. People post someone else's photo into the thread to nominate them, then in the last week of the month, a new thread with a poll is started for the forum to vote on the individual photos. That would likely bring the standards up - pro photographers generally can't be bothered to randomly shoot some theme just to get in on an inactive competition, and then even keen semi-pros/amateurs like me have enough on our plate to be shooting without a random theme to add to the plate.
Also I've been contemplating whether it would be worth getting rid of the Post Your Pictures Here type threads entirely, including the original one. They spread the community too thin with the number we're at, and they completely choke critiques because maybe 1 in 10 posts will actually have photos that are good or bad enough for people to bother responding - whereas in their own separate threads I feel people would be more willing to help others improve and give advice or admiration.
It's a sign of how bad it is when I check the forums four or five times daily, and there might be new posts for one or two of those checks per day.
It's a sign of how bad it is when I check the forums four or five times daily, and there might be new posts for one or two of those checks per day.
Soldato
I don't think there's anything wrong as such, some of the themes have been brilliant and I've tried to think of concepts to enter for most of them. I was going to make an effort to contribute this season and had an idea I was going to try for resolution but just ran out of time due to a lot going on personally (new job yay!).
With the competitions the months are always going to start off slow as people need time to get the shots. One way to tackle this might be to cut the judging down to two weeks from close (if possible, the feedback has always been great and the effort the judges put in is fantastic), announce the winner and new theme, then allow those extra two weeks for people to try shooting and allow those shots into the competition for next month (6 weeks to get a shot instead of 4).
Another idea might be to allow a trump card to be used once a season to allow you to submit a photo from your own collection taken at any time to be entered if you really don't have the time to enter that month, or have something that suits the theme really well that you want to submit.
Also can someone plan more meets please?
With the competitions the months are always going to start off slow as people need time to get the shots. One way to tackle this might be to cut the judging down to two weeks from close (if possible, the feedback has always been great and the effort the judges put in is fantastic), announce the winner and new theme, then allow those extra two weeks for people to try shooting and allow those shots into the competition for next month (6 weeks to get a shot instead of 4).
Another idea might be to allow a trump card to be used once a season to allow you to submit a photo from your own collection taken at any time to be entered if you really don't have the time to enter that month, or have something that suits the theme really well that you want to submit.
Also can someone plan more meets please?
Soldato
This, lock those threads, encourage all to start posting individual threads for photo critique and advise then hopefully we can have less of the 'why didn't you buy xyz as lab tests show it's 00.1% better than abc'.
Man of Honour
This is generally the aim each month but unfortunately it is not always achievable due to work and family life.
Soldato
Get everyone to email theme ideas in and have a list on site from the start of the year, then the judges pick the theme each month, takes all bias out of the winner choosing.
Have 3 levels of photo entry so 3 winners per theme. Beginner, intermediate and master. Each entrant can choose which category they put themselves under but if someone who is obviously a master enters the other 2 then they get moved or blocked from that comp. The 3 skill levels could be split down to equipment as well as skill and knowledge. Or just have 3 levels on entrance for equipment (mobile, P&S/bridge, SLR)
advertise in GD, let people know what is going on in here.
a mailing list for updates on how things are going, what the theme is etc.
Have 3 levels of photo entry so 3 winners per theme. Beginner, intermediate and master. Each entrant can choose which category they put themselves under but if someone who is obviously a master enters the other 2 then they get moved or blocked from that comp. The 3 skill levels could be split down to equipment as well as skill and knowledge. Or just have 3 levels on entrance for equipment (mobile, P&S/bridge, SLR)
advertise in GD, let people know what is going on in here.
a mailing list for updates on how things are going, what the theme is etc.
Associate
- Joined
- 31 Jan 2012
- Posts
- 45
As "Comp Sec' of a small East Midlands photographic society I'd like throw in couple of observations based on experience rejuvenating competitions:
I feel I'm going against the consensus a little but I kinda like the current format. I use it to encourage me to take at least 1 picture a month. Without this competition my photography gets pushed down the list of things to do below family/work/other commitments and my camera ends up gathering dust. The format of the various competitions in my club encourage / permit pictures taken anything up to year in advance. I end up doing a batch and coasting.
The suggestion of general themes may not have the desired effect. For example, a portraiture theme will appeal to the home studio workers but may discourage other workers in other fields.
"Winner chosen by vote" will give you the fast result but I assume there will be no judges comments and that was one of things that attracted me to this competition. It can also lead to "chocolate box"winners
The drop the your worst 1 or 2 (3?) rounds is a sensible idea. I suspect that anybody who misses a round feels that they are out of the running. With this proposal you're still in with a chance and there is an incentive to keep entering. (Makes the last few rounds exciting as competitors have the incentive to be beat their existing lowest score but more work for judges sorting the score board)
I feel I'm going against the consensus a little but I kinda like the current format. I use it to encourage me to take at least 1 picture a month. Without this competition my photography gets pushed down the list of things to do below family/work/other commitments and my camera ends up gathering dust. The format of the various competitions in my club encourage / permit pictures taken anything up to year in advance. I end up doing a batch and coasting.
The suggestion of general themes may not have the desired effect. For example, a portraiture theme will appeal to the home studio workers but may discourage other workers in other fields.
"Winner chosen by vote" will give you the fast result but I assume there will be no judges comments and that was one of things that attracted me to this competition. It can also lead to "chocolate box"winners
The drop the your worst 1 or 2 (3?) rounds is a sensible idea. I suspect that anybody who misses a round feels that they are out of the running. With this proposal you're still in with a chance and there is an incentive to keep entering. (Makes the last few rounds exciting as competitors have the incentive to be beat their existing lowest score but more work for judges sorting the score board)
Soldato
The lack of uptake lately really has been disappointing to see. I remember the photo comp having far more entries as has been mentioned.
I don't like the idea of going more generic for the comp. The reason I like entering is because of how unique many of the themes are....they REALLY get me thinking/trying things I wouldn't usually and dare I say, struggling from time to time I don't care if some of the entries absolutely destroy my entry....it's nice to have ago at something I wouldn't usually try and also receive feedback from the judges for it. Over the years I feel I have got better thanks to the comp and I think it shows when I look back over some of my scores/entries for previous months.
I think there has only ever been 1 case of the winner of one theme winning the next theme because they've chosen it that I can remember without checking. It's such a small issue I'd say its a non-issue to be honest, though obviously has more potential to crop up with such a small number of people entering each month.
I would vote to leave the theme choice the way it is, but the scoring system needs to be changed. Time is always an issue for people and the moment you miss one month (or even struggle to get an entry in) you start struggling to keep up in the leader board. It is also a problem if a newcomer starts half way through the year...while the feedback and challenge is good, there's no incentive to compete with anyone else that's a similar skill level to yourself.
I don't like the idea of going more generic for the comp. The reason I like entering is because of how unique many of the themes are....they REALLY get me thinking/trying things I wouldn't usually and dare I say, struggling from time to time
I don't care if some of the entries absolutely destroy my entry....it's nice to have ago at something I wouldn't usually try and also receive feedback from the judges for it. Over the years I feel I have got better thanks to the comp and I think it shows when I look back over some of my scores/entries for previous months.I think there has only ever been 1 case of the winner of one theme winning the next theme because they've chosen it that I can remember without checking. It's such a small issue I'd say its a non-issue to be honest, though obviously has more potential to crop up with such a small number of people entering each month.
I would vote to leave the theme choice the way it is, but the scoring system needs to be changed. Time is always an issue for people and the moment you miss one month (or even struggle to get an entry in) you start struggling to keep up in the leader board. It is also a problem if a newcomer starts half way through the year...while the feedback and challenge is good, there's no incentive to compete with anyone else that's a similar skill level to yourself.
Soldato
I'd agree with this. I would love to take part more often but most times I look at the theme and just don't have a clue about what to do for it. I can understand some of the more committed people not wanting it to be dumbed down (for want of a better term) - so many it could alternate a little? One in depth round, then a more generic one? *shrugs*
Off on holiday for 2 weeks now so going to try and force myself to take pictures every day! Try and get some motivation back!
Soldato
- Joined
- 3 Mar 2008
- Posts
- 2,566
I agree with the themes being the issue. My suggestion ,is pick 4 themes for the year, and roll them, that way people can plan, develop their skills and hopefully reflect back to look at how they have improved. Also skill levels should be taken into account.
e.g
Jan - Theme 1
Feb - Theme 2
Mar - Theme 3
Apr - Theme 4
May - Theme 1
Jun - Theme 2
Jul - Theme 3
Aug - Theme 4
e.g
Jan - Theme 1
Feb - Theme 2
Mar - Theme 3
Apr - Theme 4
May - Theme 1
Jun - Theme 2
Jul - Theme 3
Aug - Theme 4
Soldato
The discussion seems to have gone beyond the competition and into a debate about eh future of the forum. Not right or wrong, these are my own views:
The PV forum attracts only a small proportion of the overall OCUK visitors, but that's probably right. Photography enthusiasts are not widespread and the enthusiasts here, along with other regular viewers, might well get annoyed if there was more footfall and there were ten times more photos were published with little improvement in quality. So for me there are two things:
1 - improve the visibility of the PV forum; and
2 - improve the popularity of the monthly competition
But.. maintain decent standards.
I don't think there's a need to remove threads like the 'Post your pictures here'. What I would like to see encouraged are threads where people post their picture and take the time to explain more about it - the composition, the lighting, why they took it, the processing etc rather than the typically rushed 'get my next great picture up online'.
That's a comment on the forum but for the competition I don't think much needs to change - it just needs more activity on the forum. The categories chosen are fine for me - they're often very stretching (I probably enter 1 in 3) and they make you think. Importantly they compel you to take a photo that month. I don't believe we should change the system to ask any more effort or resources from the judges either, as any voluntary time is welcome and more would be prohibitive.
My own far out idea - twice a year to have a subject related to the forum, i.e. OCUK. Make it a PC / hardware / tech theme and encourage people to enter it on the other forums here. On these comps there could be a prize related to the theme - nothing big - sub £100 piece of hardware or something - but the qualification could be to have entered the previous month's competition. Not perfect but something along those lines.
If nothing else OCUK, or manufacturers, might get a cool shot of their wares!
The PV forum attracts only a small proportion of the overall OCUK visitors, but that's probably right. Photography enthusiasts are not widespread and the enthusiasts here, along with other regular viewers, might well get annoyed if there was more footfall and there were ten times more photos were published with little improvement in quality. So for me there are two things:
1 - improve the visibility of the PV forum; and
2 - improve the popularity of the monthly competition
But.. maintain decent standards.
I don't think there's a need to remove threads like the 'Post your pictures here'. What I would like to see encouraged are threads where people post their picture and take the time to explain more about it - the composition, the lighting, why they took it, the processing etc rather than the typically rushed 'get my next great picture up online'.
That's a comment on the forum but for the competition I don't think much needs to change - it just needs more activity on the forum. The categories chosen are fine for me - they're often very stretching (I probably enter 1 in 3) and they make you think. Importantly they compel you to take a photo that month. I don't believe we should change the system to ask any more effort or resources from the judges either, as any voluntary time is welcome and more would be prohibitive.
My own far out idea - twice a year to have a subject related to the forum, i.e. OCUK. Make it a PC / hardware / tech theme and encourage people to enter it on the other forums here. On these comps there could be a prize related to the theme - nothing big - sub £100 piece of hardware or something - but the qualification could be to have entered the previous month's competition. Not perfect but something along those lines.
If nothing else OCUK, or manufacturers, might get a cool shot of their wares!
This.
And if as a relative novice I can put my two cents forward, we've got something special here.
The photography group is small here, that is obviously natural however for me that is its saving grace. I would never ever ever ever! (yes that many!) dream of entering a comp on TP or another photo forum. Those guys have hundreds of entries from users who literally earn their living from taking photos, and as a result I feel this closer, intimate comp is a better place for my photos to get a decent and fair critique (I mean jeez, my first entry was a blooming seagul, and crane sat down and gave it a good looking over! You have no idea what that did for my self esteem when I'm appearing on the same page as togs such as GXR, Ksanti and Red5, literally, not technially
)Its a great intimate place to come and get fair points and fair discussion, TP is rather bad for that I feel, posts get buried in minutes not hours and ask a bad question, prepare for flame!
The comp format has its pro's and cons:
Pros: Good themes (if a tad too abstract, however that does force some thought!)
Smallish entry numbers
A good level of critique
Cons:
Complex themes
You can feel a tad intimidated by the early bloomers in each months entry. (This month alone was wow!)
You're never gonna win unless all your competition kicks the can (although I did come 8th, however I don't know if thats a reflection of the committed members and the large gap in the abilities of the part timers)
Sorry for the wall of text
End note tho, I am for scrapping the GIANT all pics here threads. A post per photo wishing critique would prove more beneficial (A user could upload the photo and link a file of the RAW, allowing if permitted other members to have a go with their shot and offer advice)