Oops... forgot a couple.. here's one.
OcUK Rolling Road Day 20 @ Ti Motorsport (Stoke) - Saturday 29th October 2016
- Thread starter ScoobyDoo69
- Start date
Corrected.
Soldato
This is what makes the super charger tempting:
Absolute insane gear acceleration, the guy is not even trying and the thing just accelerates like nothing, 130-155mph takes a 2-3s haha.
Really impressive as well because unlike a turbo they still rev so hard to 8000rpm and you still get the full V8 roar with added whine, OK I need to stop talking about this now, temptations, haha!
All I will say is the yellow one had a run with an R8 V10, lets just say after they had a few plays the Audi driver probably took his car back to Audi, he made it look like it was moving backwards haha and an R8 V10 is a bloody quick car.
That acceleration is outrageous!
Shows it a bit better here:
When the 10 speed auto comes along I can forsee some total insane acceleration coming from these cars. Cannot wait to get behind the wheel in my mates which is now at the same level as those in videos at 750-800BHP.
Man of Honour
The Mazda made some quality turbo noises I have to say, must get some surprised looks just driving around as it looks pretty standard on the outside
Thanks, I missed this before.
Part of me wants to fit a recirculating BOV and design a more OEM like I take setup to reduce the intake noise and turbo flutter of nothing for the ultimate in stealth.
It does surprise a lot of people, especially when your average 2.0 diesel will hassle a stock MX5 in a straight line
Final Conclusion
Right so I've being pretty quiet for a few days, am now on the 4th or 5th tune revision from Lund due to some low down throttle issues, essentially it was over-sensitive.
This latest revision is much better, they put the drive by wire setting back to standard to give the throttle more linearity and to suite my style better. Before it was too snappy at low RPM with both more timing and drive by wire turned up higher down low, some might like this but I prefer a smoother throttle as I like to balance the car and steer the car on the throttle a lot and I simply could not believe a stock GT 350 drove like that (they do not).
Now on a cold start its still a touch jumpy, but hey even a stock GT cold start does not drive as smooth as when warm, it is just more pronounced with this setup, mainly caused by the larger maf diameter tube from a CAI as I had same issue with just PMAS CAI. When you increase diameter of maf tube the air passing through it slow down (lower air velocity) due to the larger opening, this means you lose precision, particular at slow air speeds.
Now on this latest revision the car is better, I'd still like to have better cold start driving but at least now it does not annoy me, warm is now pretty spot on to the point I am happy, yes it could be better and its no worse than a stock car now.
I went to the dyno this morning, we did two runs, both runs within 1BHP, 515 and 516 horses, which shocked me. Even more so we were having an issue as the car refused to rev over 7000rpm on the dyno, it kept hitting a soft limiter where the car just held revs at 7000 and refused to go higher, it was soft limiter as there was no harshness or abruptness to the limiter or no ba ba ba ba ba like you get at fuel cut. So we think there is more power as peak power is at 7500rpm on this manifold and you can see from the graph it was still making power and then spikes from 500-505 to 520 as the limiter kicks.
516BHP & 396lb/ft (Lund tune and full GT 350 setup)
472BHP & 410lb/ft (Lund tune and PMAS CAI, stock GT IM&TB)
415BHP & 360lb/ft (STOCK CAR RON 95)
So you can see over a stock car the GT 350 setup still makes a lot more torque everywhere, which is down to the tune as a tune makes great power and torque gains on these cars, typically 40BHP/40lb/ft just tune when fully dialled in and tweaked, making it more a custom tune rather than canned and Lund are very happy to work with you and tweak a car whereas other tuners like SCT sell you a tune and that is it, tough luck.
Compared to the PMAS CAI the dyno does not tell the true story to what I feel on the road. Also only compare the lines beyond 3000rpm simply because dyno operator has an effect on under 3000rpm due to how they get in the power and when they get in the power.
Still you can see the GT 350 setup does shift the powerband as such on the road the GT 350 setup feels quicker because on the road you really feel it come on very strong at 2200rpm and it never stops because of how it makes more power in a linear fashion without spikes and dips like the car does on stock GT IM and with a CAI.
So on the road it feels better, it also once over 3000rpm puts power down better too due to how it makes the power in a more linear fashion with a flatter torque curve.
Also this setup just seems to punch way harder when you go WOT even at low RPM, whereas the stock manifold seems lazy under 4000rpm when punching to WOT.
This is stuff the dyno cannot show but it does show the powerband shift and it does show beyond 6000rpm is all gains starting as low as 10-20BHP which as you cross 7000rpm is around 50BHP.
For some reason the car was soft limiting at 7000rpm at which point it was making around 500BHP and as the limiter kicks I personally feel it is spiking the BHP by 15-20BHP, but on the flip side we know this intake makes peak power at 7500rpm so there was still more power to make if we could have revved it out more but for some reason on the dyno the stock limiter was kicking in yet on the road the limiter is set to 8100rpm and I have personally revved it as high as 7700rpm for datalogging and on my drive back from the dyno I did a pull to around 7500rpm and it had no issue on the road.
So this setup or otherwise known as Ford Power Pack 3 with a Lund tune is good for 500+ crank horsepower, headers will put the car above GT 350 horsepower with a custom tune, so that really is good stuff.
The issue with this setup, $1000 gets you a CAI and flasher/tune that gives you massive gains and results of typically 475HP/415lb/ft with a custom tune on a UK (RHD) car. That is great value for money!
This setup however though it makes more power (above 6000rpm) but a little less torque does cost $2000 with tuning and flasher, so the value for money gains are less. So you really have to decide if you think it is worth it, yes it drives better, yes going WOT is a lot more punchy from any RPM and yes the way the car pulls your face off over 6000rpm is very addictive, but of course it means you want to rev harder and more RPM will equal more wear, how it will effect engine lifespan is pretty unknown, we know the engine is built by Ford for 7500rpm, so you gain 1500rpm-2000rpm with PP3 where there is more power and more fun. The Americans on these setups are revving much higher, typically to around 8000rpm and some are pushing to around 8300rpm, failures? None yet!
My intention is just to rev out to around 7500rpm but you do need to concentrate as now the car revs like crazy compared to stock so it is very easy to hit 8000, I think I need to get some form of buzzer indicator to change gear and set it at 7400rpm, which should time my gear changes at around 7600rpm.
But on some landmarks I use the car is travelling quicker than before, looks to be nearly another 3-4mph quicker as the car really moves along when you use that extra RPM.
Whats next? Gonna send the log to Lund on the dyno, but again I can report there was ZERO positive knock and it was still adding in timing upto around 5500rpm at which point knock went to 0.00 so all safe and spot on. Hopefully they can shed some light on the 7000rpm stock soft limiter kicking in on the dyno.
Next is headers and hopefully another 50 or so horses gain with some Kooks 1 7/8 green catted headers, be nice to see 550BHP NA.
But big kudos to Ford as the engine with just bolt-ons is making over 100HP per litre, gone are the days of big lazy American V8's well for Ford anyway as it makes fantastic power and loves to rev.
I still might give the JDM tune a try as they are confident there tune drives smoother, so if they make me an offer I will give it a try and well post my feedback and probably get it back on the dyno for comparison. But as it is I am happy, when fully warm car drives nice and smooth even in normal mode, race is spot on and I tend to not use sport mode.
Also this setup makes wet mode a lot more snappier too, which a lot would like I am sure as wet mode on the stock car has very lazy throttle, whereas on this setup wet mode is nearly as good as normal mode on the stock car for responsiveness which I know could be a huge bonus to some. What I cannot tell you is which part does that, maybe just Power Pack 2 will do the trick as it could just be down to the stepped throttle body give better low-down response or it could be the manifold, but my bet is on the throttle body.
P.S. For those wanting to know, wheel figures: STOCK CAR 312WHP, PMAS & TUNE: 359WHP and GT 350 setup: 390WHP. Remember its a maha dyno so wheel figures are also very low and would break hearts. Still near as dammit 80WHP gains with bolt-ons, which is damn close to 100 horsepower.
Right so I've being pretty quiet for a few days, am now on the 4th or 5th tune revision from Lund due to some low down throttle issues, essentially it was over-sensitive.
This latest revision is much better, they put the drive by wire setting back to standard to give the throttle more linearity and to suite my style better. Before it was too snappy at low RPM with both more timing and drive by wire turned up higher down low, some might like this but I prefer a smoother throttle as I like to balance the car and steer the car on the throttle a lot and I simply could not believe a stock GT 350 drove like that (they do not).
Now on a cold start its still a touch jumpy, but hey even a stock GT cold start does not drive as smooth as when warm, it is just more pronounced with this setup, mainly caused by the larger maf diameter tube from a CAI as I had same issue with just PMAS CAI. When you increase diameter of maf tube the air passing through it slow down (lower air velocity) due to the larger opening, this means you lose precision, particular at slow air speeds.
Now on this latest revision the car is better, I'd still like to have better cold start driving but at least now it does not annoy me, warm is now pretty spot on to the point I am happy, yes it could be better and its no worse than a stock car now.
I went to the dyno this morning, we did two runs, both runs within 1BHP, 515 and 516 horses, which shocked me. Even more so we were having an issue as the car refused to rev over 7000rpm on the dyno, it kept hitting a soft limiter where the car just held revs at 7000 and refused to go higher, it was soft limiter as there was no harshness or abruptness to the limiter or no ba ba ba ba ba like you get at fuel cut. So we think there is more power as peak power is at 7500rpm on this manifold and you can see from the graph it was still making power and then spikes from 500-505 to 520 as the limiter kicks.
516BHP & 396lb/ft (Lund tune and full GT 350 setup)
472BHP & 410lb/ft (Lund tune and PMAS CAI, stock GT IM&TB)
415BHP & 360lb/ft (STOCK CAR RON 95)
So you can see over a stock car the GT 350 setup still makes a lot more torque everywhere, which is down to the tune as a tune makes great power and torque gains on these cars, typically 40BHP/40lb/ft just tune when fully dialled in and tweaked, making it more a custom tune rather than canned and Lund are very happy to work with you and tweak a car whereas other tuners like SCT sell you a tune and that is it, tough luck.
Compared to the PMAS CAI the dyno does not tell the true story to what I feel on the road. Also only compare the lines beyond 3000rpm simply because dyno operator has an effect on under 3000rpm due to how they get in the power and when they get in the power.
Still you can see the GT 350 setup does shift the powerband as such on the road the GT 350 setup feels quicker because on the road you really feel it come on very strong at 2200rpm and it never stops because of how it makes more power in a linear fashion without spikes and dips like the car does on stock GT IM and with a CAI.
So on the road it feels better, it also once over 3000rpm puts power down better too due to how it makes the power in a more linear fashion with a flatter torque curve.
Also this setup just seems to punch way harder when you go WOT even at low RPM, whereas the stock manifold seems lazy under 4000rpm when punching to WOT.
This is stuff the dyno cannot show but it does show the powerband shift and it does show beyond 6000rpm is all gains starting as low as 10-20BHP which as you cross 7000rpm is around 50BHP.
For some reason the car was soft limiting at 7000rpm at which point it was making around 500BHP and as the limiter kicks I personally feel it is spiking the BHP by 15-20BHP, but on the flip side we know this intake makes peak power at 7500rpm so there was still more power to make if we could have revved it out more but for some reason on the dyno the stock limiter was kicking in yet on the road the limiter is set to 8100rpm and I have personally revved it as high as 7700rpm for datalogging and on my drive back from the dyno I did a pull to around 7500rpm and it had no issue on the road.
So this setup or otherwise known as Ford Power Pack 3 with a Lund tune is good for 500+ crank horsepower, headers will put the car above GT 350 horsepower with a custom tune, so that really is good stuff.
The issue with this setup, $1000 gets you a CAI and flasher/tune that gives you massive gains and results of typically 475HP/415lb/ft with a custom tune on a UK (RHD) car. That is great value for money!
This setup however though it makes more power (above 6000rpm) but a little less torque does cost $2000 with tuning and flasher, so the value for money gains are less. So you really have to decide if you think it is worth it, yes it drives better, yes going WOT is a lot more punchy from any RPM and yes the way the car pulls your face off over 6000rpm is very addictive, but of course it means you want to rev harder and more RPM will equal more wear, how it will effect engine lifespan is pretty unknown, we know the engine is built by Ford for 7500rpm, so you gain 1500rpm-2000rpm with PP3 where there is more power and more fun. The Americans on these setups are revving much higher, typically to around 8000rpm and some are pushing to around 8300rpm, failures? None yet!
My intention is just to rev out to around 7500rpm but you do need to concentrate as now the car revs like crazy compared to stock so it is very easy to hit 8000, I think I need to get some form of buzzer indicator to change gear and set it at 7400rpm, which should time my gear changes at around 7600rpm.
But on some landmarks I use the car is travelling quicker than before, looks to be nearly another 3-4mph quicker as the car really moves along when you use that extra RPM.
Whats next? Gonna send the log to Lund on the dyno, but again I can report there was ZERO positive knock and it was still adding in timing upto around 5500rpm at which point knock went to 0.00 so all safe and spot on. Hopefully they can shed some light on the 7000rpm stock soft limiter kicking in on the dyno.
Next is headers and hopefully another 50 or so horses gain with some Kooks 1 7/8 green catted headers, be nice to see 550BHP NA.
But big kudos to Ford as the engine with just bolt-ons is making over 100HP per litre, gone are the days of big lazy American V8's well for Ford anyway as it makes fantastic power and loves to rev.
I still might give the JDM tune a try as they are confident there tune drives smoother, so if they make me an offer I will give it a try and well post my feedback and probably get it back on the dyno for comparison. But as it is I am happy, when fully warm car drives nice and smooth even in normal mode, race is spot on and I tend to not use sport mode.
Also this setup makes wet mode a lot more snappier too, which a lot would like I am sure as wet mode on the stock car has very lazy throttle, whereas on this setup wet mode is nearly as good as normal mode on the stock car for responsiveness which I know could be a huge bonus to some. What I cannot tell you is which part does that, maybe just Power Pack 2 will do the trick as it could just be down to the stepped throttle body give better low-down response or it could be the manifold, but my bet is on the throttle body.
P.S. For those wanting to know, wheel figures: STOCK CAR 312WHP, PMAS & TUNE: 359WHP and GT 350 setup: 390WHP. Remember its a maha dyno so wheel figures are also very low and would break hearts. Still near as dammit 80WHP gains with bolt-ons, which is damn close to 100 horsepower.
The guys at TI Motorsport now have chain straps too, much better and easier for them to strap cars down. Car ran easy, no spin, only issue was 7000rpm soft limiter.
They also have a new exhaust ventilation system being installed in the new year to make sure all fumes are outside the building.
They also have a new exhaust ventilation system being installed in the new year to make sure all fumes are outside the building.
Anything about better fans at the front?
Not sure, because they have the big huge power maha blower fan that they had before.
But there is now a red turbine fan on a rotating part that can be aimed at any part in the engine, but I don't know if that was there before or not?
For me cooling was never an issue anyway but my car is NA so it is more resistant to temperatures than a turbo car and as they only ran my car today it was damn cold in there.
But the car never pulled any timing the whole run as I was logging it, it was adding in more timing upto 8 degrees upto 6000rpm and then it went neutral too 7000rpm, so car had a good run, just a shame some soft limiter kicked in as was hoping to do a pull upto around 7700rpm to show the 50HP gain at the top-end, but I made 500+ with bolt-ons, pretty chuffed with that.
Same as before.
I presume no ramp rate issues?
Why did the soft limiter kick in then? Good results btw.
I presume no ramp rate issues?
Why did the soft limiter kick in then? Good results btw.
Ramp rate was an issue but they realised before starting the run when they just did bringing car fully upto oil temperature so had it turned down for runs, so was no issue, it did two easy runs and I was sat in the car, no wheelspin, no vibrations, it just ran like a dream until 7000rpm, but was super smooth. I was saying I bet its gonna do something naughty like 497BHP to annoy me, when it showed 516 I was very happy, though I think it is more like 505 area to be honest.
My guess is because the car was in fault mode, ABS lights, TC lights on etc. We have always put the car in this mode because otherwise traction control kicks in even when it is off and this is how we always ran the car, but before we never took it over 7000rpm, always before 6500rpm.
On the graph it looks like we rev to 7200rpm, but both the cars rev counter and my datalogger device showed the car reached 7000rpm only, I will double check the logs when home, which says to me the cars original stock limiter kicked in as stock is 7000rpm.
My guess is the car has the limiter set in several places, valet mode, fault mode and regular modes, so I reckon they have not adjusted it in the fault mode is my guess.
I think the 516HP is more, look at the graph its tracking nicely to 485BHP at 6800rpm and builds to 500BHP at 7000rpm but then it spikes right at the end and I do not think that is the car making its traditional power curve but more a spike from bumping the limiter. I think the real figure at 7000rpm is more like 495-505BHP and peak power comes at 7300-7500rpm and that extra 500rpm they tend to make upto another 10WHP in that area, so its 500+ for sure which makes me happy.
Headers next, they will really let the intake manifold work as the intake is now flowing as best as possible, but the exhaust is still very restricted due to stock RHD headers and cats.
Sounds like a plan. When are we going next?
PS - Haz Santa Pod dates for next year. Planning to arrange Pod time and Curborough too!
PS - Haz Santa Pod dates for next year. Planning to arrange Pod time and Curborough too!
Cool, I'll be attending, I am giving up on fast quarter time as that is down to me, just want to be crossing the line as close to 120mph as possible, though it was be nice to get into the 12's especially if I have a high 11s capable car.
Cool, I'll be attending, I am giving up on fast quarter time as that is down to me, just want to be crossing the line as close to 120mph as possible, though it was be nice to get into the 12's especially if I have a high 11s capable car.
You'll get there soon
Soldato
How much extra volume does changing the exhaust manifolds add? It's pretty noisy as it is, just hope it doesn't end up excessively loud.
They will make it louder for sure, but the ones I have heard it just makes them sound more evil whilst still totally amazing.
If it is too loud then they can be easily quietened down with some sound resonators but this is why I got the quieter exhaust system because I always knew I would fit headers at some point which then make it nearly as loud as the louder version of the exhaust setup.