OCUK RR Day 6 - The Results Thread - PDF's of Dyno's Inside !!

[Moeks]

In hindsight it's amusing to think of us BMW drivers frantically driving around the block trying to clear the plethora of warning lights but it was quite scary at the time

Damn right, for a few minutes I thought mine were representing the end of the world as I knew it ...mind you, at least mine all cleared after about 4 minutes. Others took much longer and more frantic trips around the block.

 

[Meridian]

Someone I was chatting to at the RR wanted to know what was causing my car to "only" get 349bhp.

Well, I finally got to talk to Pavlo at Zen today. His general conclusion is that the timing suddenly retards at about 6000rpm, hence the nearly flat power curve after that. After the last remap, the local RR showed a constant rise in power until the red line, at about 7200, but something has clearly gone wrong since then. So I'm going back to Zen next month to get the map tweaked again, and hopefully at least get back to the 389 I had a month ago.


M

 

[phill9800]

I'd say its also down to how it was mapped too. Whether it was mapped on the Rollers or on the Road.
There seems to be a lot of chat about it with all the forums I visit, which is better and all this.

I know my Impreza Type R was mapped on the rollers and I made good figures, considering it was all standard. I think the rollers can be safer but its just personal preference to who and how its mapped.

I dont hear great things about Power station and so, wouldnt take my car there. I think their suspension packages are meant to be good, but I wouldnt go there for anything else..

 

[DreXeL]

I dont hear great things about Power station and so, wouldnt take my car there. I think their suspension packages are meant to be good, but I wouldnt go there for anything else..

I always found them great, I had the majority of the work on my Scoob done there and have nothing but praise for them TBH.

And if they are good enough for Litchfield.........

 

[phill9800]

This is what I thought, but when I was hearing some of the horror stories I was hearing, my thoughts of getting stuff done there was a big no no....

I guess its all down to personal experience.. You get work done there and its fine no problem, have no work done there and hear bad things, you aint gonna want to risk it are you? Or at the other end, if you have had bad experiences with them, you wont touch them again and tell your mates etc to stay away...

I dunno, I just go by what I read, which is sometimes not a good thing! Question is, what/who do you believe??

 

[GeX]

looks like a fun day. which RR do you guys use - and what are they like for very low cars, mines had trouble before getting onto rollers

 

[Berger]

looks like a fun day. which RR do you guys use - and what are they like for very low cars, mines had trouble before getting onto rollers

Mine got on and its pretty low, had about 5mm clearance with the front splitter though when they lowered it onto the rollers, id guess at it being 10cm off the ground normally, it wont go up ramps at garages etc.

 

[GeX]

hmm.. i *may* have issues there then




slightly OT - but i notice you are in preston. on friday at 4ish, we're you near autobreakers - and remember pulling up next a 220 tomcat? I can't remember if the car was dark red or green - but it sounded like there was a 2.0t lump in there. I was in the 220 tomcat.

 

[Berger]

Erm, Friday Friday Friday.

Drove from Peterborough to Manchester to Preston got home about half 1, then later on went to Preston college about 7ish so wouldnt have been me.

My car is fairly noticable, you will know it if you see it. Ive seen a few coupes in Preston, any pics of yours?

My cars lowered by approximatly 40mm on Pi springs, the lowest point is the gear selector at the bottom i think, then the sump and 'box, both are slightly lower than the front of the car.

 

[Meridian]

I'd say its also down to how it was mapped too. Whether it was mapped on the Rollers or on the Road.
There seems to be a lot of chat about it with all the forums I visit, which is better and all this.

There was a massive thread on SN about it, with several of the big guns joining in. General opinion seemed to be, that no matter how you started, you should finish on the road.

In my case, my first (330/320) map was only on the road. The 390/330 map was started on the rollers, then tweaked on the open road. It had a couple of later adjustments done in the real world as well.

I've now had it tweaked again. The problem was a massive ignition retardation at 6000rpm, probably because the engine had detected what it thought was knock at some point. More probably it was either fuel surge (I get that at 40% of a tank or less on right-handers) or when I hit the rev limiter by accident (easy to do when max power is 7200rpm, and the rev limiter kicks in at 7201rpm...). Either way, the map was tweaked again on the open road (a private one of course, given the speeds I hit) and now seems to be behaving.


Next up, a boost controller, then hopefully 1.70 Bar. That should get the torque up (hopefully to at least 380lbft). Then possibly an oil catch can, and more importantly, and anti- fuel-surge device.


M

 

[GeX]

My car is fairly noticable, you will know it if you see it. Ive seen a few coupes in Preston, any pics of yours?

it's not my coupe, i was in passenger seat. belongs to a mate of mine - we've just finished rebuilding it (had engine out, stripped and rebuilt). will hunt out some pics.

 

[ScoobyDoo69]

Meridian, bit confused at to why you'd need a boost controller..?

 

[phill9800]

There was a massive thread on SN about it, with several of the big guns joining in. General opinion seemed to be, that no matter how you started, you should finish on the road.

In my case, my first (330/320) map was only on the road. The 390/330 map was started on the rollers, then tweaked on the open road. It had a couple of later adjustments done in the real world as well.

I've now had it tweaked again. The problem was a massive ignition retardation at 6000rpm, probably because the engine had detected what it thought was knock at some point. More probably it was either fuel surge (I get that at 40% of a tank or less on right-handers) or when I hit the rev limiter by accident (easy to do when max power is 7200rpm, and the rev limiter kicks in at 7201rpm...). Either way, the map was tweaked again on the open road (a private one of course, given the speeds I hit) and now seems to be behaving.


Next up, a boost controller, then hopefully 1.70 Bar. That should get the torque up (hopefully to at least 380lbft). Then possibly an oil catch can, and more importantly, and anti- fuel-surge device.


M

I saw a few posts saying about the fuel problems or detting on the rollers because of the size of the fans used... I dunno, its always the same, you never know who to believe and by then you've been somewhere else which is no different... What a shame....

 

[Meridian]

Meridian, bit confused at to why you'd need a boost controller..?

I'm using the original Subaru Ecutek ECU. These are really only designed to cope with about 1.2 Bar of boost, but in the real world can cope up to about 1.45-1.50 Bar. Above that they tend to have trouble tracking the incoming air and get confused about when to open the wastegate, etc. I want to run about 1.70 Bar, which is the limit for the new turbo, so that means another way of controlling the boost.

 

[phill9800]

I thought the Ecu Tek ECU's where fully programmable?? I have a Simtek in mine at the moment. I dont have a MAF sensor because of it...

 

[Bear]

I'm using the original Subaru Ecutek ECU. These are really only designed to cope with about 1.2 Bar of boost, but in the real world can cope up to about 1.45-1.50 Bar. Above that they tend to have trouble tracking the incoming air and get confused about when to open the wastegate, etc. I want to run about 1.70 Bar, which is the limit for the new turbo, so that means another way of controlling the boost.

Dont know anything about scoobys and much about your car. I was under the impression (dont know why) that your car had stock internals. If that is the case then surely 1.7bar on a stock engine with standard compression ratio would have a problem with det unless you pulled loads of ignition retardation which would cause egts to go up ?? Apologies if Ive got it completely wrong

 

[Meridian]

I thought the Ecu Tek ECU's where fully programmable?? I have a Simtek in mine at the moment. I dont have a MAF sensor because of it...

"Fully programable" is a relative term. As I said, I plan to take the boost way out of the area that the ECU knows how to deal with. Remember, it's not just a question of setting new values: the ECU still needs to adjust to changes in fuel type, air temperature, etc. If you're in uncharted territory then you can hit expensive trouble.

Dont know anything about scoobys and much about your car. I was under the impression (dont know why) that your car had stock internals. If that is the case then surely 1.7bar on a stock engine with standard compression ratio would have a problem with det unless you pulled loads of ignition retardation which would cause egts to go up ?? Apologies if Ive got it completely wrong

Yes, the internals are standard. It's my (limited) understanding that boost alone won't cause det, no matter what the compression ratio. Especially since map will be programmed to allow for the extra boost. Det is (AFAIK) mainly down to the fuel leaning out too much - that's why I have up-rated (650cc) injectors. But I'm just following Paul Blamire's advice, and he seems to know what he's doing....


M

 

[Simon]

Yes, the internals are standard. It's my (limited) understanding that boost alone won't cause det, no matter what the compression ratio. Especially since map will be programmed to allow for the extra boost. Det is (AFAIK) mainly down to the fuel leaning out too much - that's why I have up-rated (650cc) injectors. But I'm just following Paul Blamire's advice, and he seems to know what he's doing....


M

Too much boost = more heat and even with perfect tuning and timing the piston can still melt through detonation caused by a hot spark plug. Running lean has the same effect, it also loses the flame quenching of a rich misture that slows the burn rate.

 

[Bear]

Yes, the internals are standard. It's my (limited) understanding that boost alone won't cause det, no matter what the compression ratio. Especially since map will be programmed to allow for the extra boost. Det is (AFAIK) mainly down to the fuel leaning out too much - that's why I have up-rated (650cc) injectors. But I'm just following Paul Blamire's advice, and he seems to know what he's doing....

Compression ratio will cause det with high boost which is why turbo cars run lower static compression ratios. If it wasnt a problem then turbo cars would run CRs like NA cars for better off boost drivability/response and fuel efficiency.

 

[Meridian]

I meant in the sense of an engine which already has a lowish compression ratio - I'm fully aware that fitting turbos to cars that aren't designed for them is fraught with problems. I'm also aware that simply sticking too much power through an engine will bork it - my issue was whether it is the boost that is causing the problem, or the by-product: the extra power. My feeling is that it's the power that is the issue (which is why I don't plan on going much further than 400bhp). I would have thought that 450bhp from a big turbo running 1.4 bar is more likely to break something that 350bhp from a smaller turbo at 1.8 bar - as a For Instance. At least as long as the ECU can adapt.


But I certainly don't consider myself an expert here - that's what Pavlo is for.


M