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OcUK Ryzen 3000/Zen 2 review thread

humbug said:
CAT my board doesn't have PBO, it runs at <4.2Ghz without it under a 4 year old KRAKEN X31 at <65c. using PBO in Ryzen Master makes 0 difference.

I don't care about it being the value option, it's just plain a fast CPU, let it fly.
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I look at performance per £.

Most of my mates will quite happily take 90% of the gaming performance of a Ryzen CPU using its included cooler when compared to more expensive Intel plus its additonal cooling. In the end it means the builds can be more balanced,ie,spend more on the graphics card or something else for example. Also the fact is if you want to upgrade the cooling on a Ryzen 5 3600,places like OcUK sell the Spire and Prism for £5 and £20 respectively.

I was actually looking at the Core i7 8700 non-K and Core i7 8700K when I had to upgrade my old IB Xeon E3 system,but when my Ryzen 5 2600 cost me £137,and £5 for a Wraith Stealth,which was a cheap lowish profile cooler. This is compared to £300 at least during that time for the Core i7 8700 non-K which has a crap Intel stock cooler,meaning in a mini-ITX system I probably would have to get a much more expensive cooler,I was not going to spend over double to get 10% extra peformance(or less) in non-gaming stuff,or 15% extra in games.

Sure,if its just a CPU comparison I can understand the logic of equating cooling but again I also disagree entirely stock cooling should be ignored,and I would like an additional test of the Intel CPUs with a Hyper 212 or TX3 for example.

In the end pushing for equated cooling only makes AMD look much less value if you ignore the stock cooling,and the cost of the extra cooling for Intel was equated into many builds I knew people do.

Also I see no point of spending £50 on an AIO water cooler for a £190 Ryzen 5 3600 just to gain 100MHZ over buying a £5 Wraith Spire.

Edit!!

The same goes with all those people spending £100 more on very fast RAM to get 5% extra game performance on a £200 CPU. Meh.
 
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The Hyper 212 is a good cooler for it's money, its more than enough for a 3600 but it would throttle the crap out of a 9900K pulling 170 Watt's at 4.7Ghz all core boost, the Hyper 212 probably wouldn't get it much past 4Ghz in which case it will be slower in games than a Ryzen 3000.

Read above you :)
 
NinjaCool said:
Guru3d has their Ryzen 5 3600 review up.
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-ryzen-5-3600-review,1.html
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Recommending more than a 3600 for gaming is taking a pile of money and setting it on fire. Especially within the Ryzen lineup.

As he says, and as Wendell alluded to also, this is with a 2080 Ti and differences get smaller with less powerful cards.

Prices have not gone up to get a good gaming rig. People are only paying high prices for non-gaming performance.
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
The same goes with all those people spending £100 more on very fast RAM to get 5% extra game performance on a £200 CPU. Meh.
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When you can pick up PC3200 ram so cheap, I doubt the expensive ram would even show a 5% increase across a broad range of games. Probably more like 1-2% max. So yeah, pointless spend.
 
Hotwired said:
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Recommending more than a 3600 for gaming is taking a pile of money and setting it on fire. Especially within the Ryzen lineup.

As he says, and as Wendell alluded to also, this is with a 2080 Ti and differences get smaller with less powerful cards.

Prices have not gone up to get a good gaming rig. People are only paying high prices for non-gaming performance.
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12 threads, not many games are going to saturate those for a couple of years.

nomadd said:
When you can pick up PC3200 ram so cheap, I doubt the expensive ram would even show a 5% increase across a broad range of games. Probably more like 1-2% max. So yeah, pointless spend.
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2933Mhz to 3600Mhz nets you 7%, at least in BFV which is all they tested.

https://premiumbuilds.com/ram/best-ram-for-ryzen-3000/

Reviewers just use 2933 to 3200Mhz, i'd like the see them use 3600Mhz when overclocking, too many still forget about the memory perforamnce.
 
humbug said:
2933Mhz to 3600Mhz nets you 7%, at least in BFV which is all they tested.

https://premiumbuilds.com/ram/best-ram-for-ryzen-3000/

Reviewers just use 2933 to 3200Mhz, i'd like the see them use 3600Mhz when overclocking, too many still forget about the memory perforamnce.
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But as I said: PC3200 ram is available cheap. And with far better timings than those on the chart you showed.

On that chart, the PC3600 ram is only just over 2% faster. Cheap PC3200 ram with better timings would narrow that even more.
 
nomadd said:
But as I said: PC3200 ram is available cheap. And at better timings than those on the chart you showed.

And on the chart, the PC3600 ram is only just over 2% faster. Cheap PC3200 ram with better timings would narrow that even more.
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Are you looking at the 3733Mhz one of the 3600Mhz one? at 3733Mhz the IF bus decouples and runs at 1:2 reducing performance again.

2933 CL18 154 FPS | 3600 CL18 165 FPS (+7%)

uyOwaAo.png

CL timing don't actually make much if any difference, not even on Ryzen 1000, the IF clock is tied to the memory speed, the Mhz

KL0X7m5.png


My new 500BG NVMe drive just arrived :D
 
humbug said:
Are you looking at the 3733Mhz one of the 3600Mhz one? at 3733Mhz the IF bus decouples and runs at 1:2 reducing performance again.

2933 CL18 154 FPS | 3600 CL18 165 FPS (+7%)
Click to expand...

I'm looking at the second chart (BF:Vmemory) in the section

1. DDR4-3600 CL16 – Ryzen 3000 Memory Sweet Spot

on the link you gave when you mentioned BF:V: https://premiumbuilds.com/ram/best-ram-for-ryzen-3000/

When compared to cheap PC3200 - the uplift to PC3600 about 2%, not 7%. And tighter timings on that cheaper ram would drop that gap to under 1-2% as I mentioned initially (given that the higher speed ram generally has loser timings - unless you are prepared to spend truly silly money..)

Let's be honest here - no one is going to notice that extra 2-3 frames at 160+ fps! :D
 
humbug said:
Are you looking at the 3733Mhz one of the 3600Mhz one? at 3733Mhz the IF bus decouples and runs at 1:2 reducing performance again.

2933 CL18 154 FPS | 3600 CL18 165 FPS (+7%)

uyOwaAo.png

CL timing don't actually make much if any difference, not even on Ryzen 1000, the IF clock is tied to the memory speed, the Mhz

KL0X7m5.png


My new 500BG NVMe drive just arrived :D
Click to expand...

It is not all about speed but tight timings. CL16 is not tight enuf. CL18 is a joke.

https://i.imgur.com/zcniBc9.jpg

3466 CL16 is about same as 3200 CL14.
 
Orange Nexus said:
TPU is good for BIOSES. That's it!

You need to take a closer look at these testings. Slow RAM, Stock Cooler . . . they add up.
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Sure, but this whole thread section started off when we were talking about a decent, cheap R3600 build. Cheap PC3200 ram and stock cooler is more than good enough for most folks, and gives very respectable gaming performance.

But obviously I can't speak for the multi-billionaires that inhabit the OCUK forums. :D
 
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