Poll: Official 2023 Japanese Grand Prix Thread - Suzuka International - Round 17

[KiNgPiN83]

It looks to me like Pérez needs some mental coaching to get his mindset back. We've seen in the past he can be good enough and relatively consistent but something, or several things, lately has just rattled him. It doesn't appear Red Bull has the culture to help him with that regard. We've seen it before with the likes of Gasly and Albon. I'm guessing the winter break cannot come soon enough for him and hopefully he is able to find a way to hit the reset button for next season.

You mean mugging him off and insulting him and his countrymen isn't coaching enough?.. Maybe its time RB put an arm around him instead of a rocket up him? Also, if he hasn't already he needs to accept he is a number two in terms of skill and his place in the team and get on with it. If he doesn't like that arrangement its time to leave because its not changing all the while Max is there and the team can win with just his points.

 

[Jono8]

Feels like unless there's another "Singapore" that the Red Bull (Max anyway) will continue to scamper off into the lead while McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes battle over the podium places, with some tracks suiting one of the teams better.

Red Bull still appear too fast to be caught for the win unless something happens, if Perez can find some from I've expect him to get 2nd but thats a big if as he just looks out of talent and or luck at the moment on a track. 2nd coud easily go to Hamilton or potentially Sainz with some good results - discounting Alonso, he's closest to Hamilton just now but Aston look spent this year now.

Yes I think Alonso will be sliding down the title table as the season goes on. They look like they've fallen decently behind Fer,Merc and Mcl now.

 

[Jono8]

We've already seen how Albon and Gasly failed in that seat. I'm not so sure that drivers like Hülk or KMag would be doing any better.

But when Albon and Gasly were there, the car wasnt the absolutely dominant vehicle it is now.

Max is very good, but he isn't THAT good (IE the Red Bull isn't Ferrari/Merc level of performance, with just Max that's making the win by 30 secs pace difference)

I absolutely think Hulk or Mags would be fighting for podiums every week. They wouldn't be troubling Max, but I'm sure they'd be doing a damn sight better than Perez.

Not getting that car to at least third almost every race weekend is a travesty.

 

[Scam]

because Perez was given a penalty but Verstappen only got a reprimand, there is no rule that says a reprimand not served carries a grid penalty the next race because it's not a penalty.

Yeah true I guess. Except the FIA said in hindsight it was deserving of a penalty, lol. So if they meant it, and wanted to make it right, they could have given him the appropriate grid drop this week. I just wasn’t aware penalties can be carried over to the next race. Meh.

And yes re. Perez. I’d give him the benefit of the doubt because there’s definitely some shenanigans/priority going on with his car/strategy compared to Max’s but the guy should definitely be top five every race without fail, considering how roundly fast the car is.

 

[AlphariusOmegan]

yeah, Rule 54.3 gives the penalties that can be imposed, 5s 10s drive through or 10s stop go, after that it states

"If any of the four (4) penalties above are imposed upon a driver, and that driver is unableto serve the penalty due to retirement from the sprint session or the race, the stewardsmay impose a grid place penalty on the driver at his next race"

although it states "may" and i'm not aware of any driver being given a grid drop for an unserved penalty due to retirement, i'd suspect RBR decided that even though unlikely they wanted to pre-empt and avoid the possiblity of a drop next race.

 

[cuke2u]

Yeah true I guess. Except the FIA said in hindsight it was deserving of a penalty, lol. So if they meant it, and wanted to make it right, they could have given him the appropriate grid drop this week. I just wasn’t aware penalties can be carried over to the next race. Meh.

And yes re. Perez. I’d give him the benefit of the doubt because there’s definitely some shenanigans/priority going on with his car/strategy compared to Max’s but the guy should definitely be top five every race without fail, considering how roundly fast the car is.

From what I understood from David Croft it was a steward who stated they might have got it wrong with Max, not the FIA.

Stewards admit mistake over Verstappen penalty

Formula One stewards have accepted they erred in not imposing a grid penalty on Red Bull's Max Verstappen for impeding in Singapore qualifying last weekend, and the decision will not serve as a precedent.

www.espn.co.uk

Steward decisions are independent of the FIA as well.
As far as the RB car being fast, yes in the right hands but many drivers have found the handling characteristics difficult to master and it seems only the brilliance of Max is able to exploit it's superiority..

 

[Jono8]

As far as the RB car being fast, yes in the right hands but many drivers have found the handling characteristics difficult to master and it seems only the brilliance of Max is able to exploit it's superiority..

Perez got 2nd, 1st, 5th, 1st and 2nd in the first 5 races. Perez had no issues getting the car to finish where it should be at the start of the season, just like almost any other driver would accomplish.

Max is extremely good, no doubt. However i don't buy into this stuff about the car having some crazy unique handling characteristic that only Max can unlock.

I'd wager a good bet that if he had any of (as examples): Norris, Leclerc, Russell, Hamilton, Alonso as a teammate they would be at least giving him a run for his money. Then, even discounting the other top drivers, most of the rest of the grid would still at least bring it home on the podium every weekend.

Something has happened to Perez's mindset since the start of the season and his performance has just dropped off a cliff. The lunge on Mags just said it all today (about where he is at mentally).

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Perez is loosing it every weekend in qualifying.

By starting so many places back, he's always on the back foot and having to take risks.

 

[Mr Jack]

Driver61 had a good analysis of why Pérez is struggling, I think:

 

[413x]

Watched a brief replay.

Perez has lost it mentally. He was great at start of the year. But 2nd half has been no where. It all stems from bad qualis. That move where he basically t-boned was terrible

Aston moving back.

Great by mclaren, although I'm no fan of norris. Hope piastri continues doing well

Didn't think Russell would make that work, but worth a punt I guess. Agree with the team to let Hamilton by, the risk of sainz was too high

 

[cuke2u]

Perez got 2nd, 1st, 5th, 1st and 2nd in the first 5 races. Perez had no issues getting the car to finish where it should be at the start of the season, just like almost any other driver would accomplish.

Max is extremely good, no doubt. However i don't buy into this stuff about the car having some crazy unique handling characteristic that only Max can unlock.

I'd wager a good bet that if he had any of (as examples): Norris, Leclerc, Russell, Hamilton, Alonso as a teammate they would be at least giving him a run for his money. Then, even discounting the other top drivers, most of the rest of the grid would still at least bring it home on the podium every weekend.

Something has happened to Perez's mindset since the start of the season and his performance has just dropped off a cliff. The lunge on Mags just said it all today (about where he is at mentally).

Perez was better at the begining of the season only because the car was then more suited towards his style of driving, ie less 'pointy'. Once the car went towards Max's preference Perez then has found the handling characteristics more challenging.
Max is one of the few drivers who prefers extreme oversteer.

Which current F1 drivers can drive around a car's problems? - The Race

Whether it's down to driving style, adaptability or work ethic, some Formula 1 drivers can make a difficult car fly while others flounder

www.the-race.com

 

[jaybee]

Great by mclaren, although I'm no fan of norris. Hope piastri continues doing well

I feel the same about Norris and George this season. They've become much less likeable. I don't think it was ever one major thing. Just all the little things adding up over time. I've grown to like and respect Carlos more - even though he has form for being in the way. Stroll a major let down, but that was fairly predictable.

 

[413x]

I feel the same about Norris and George this season. They've become much less likeable. I don't think it was ever one major thing. Just all the little things adding up over time. I've grown to like and respect Carlos more - even though he has form for being in the way. Stroll a major let down, but that was fairly predictable.

I still think Russell Is OK.
I dunno what it is. But never been a norris fan. He comes. A across like verstappen a bit for me.

I like sainz, I like piastri, I like the new Hamilton. Even leclerc is OK. But something about norris just annoys me.

Edit.
I think its because he comes across as arrogant. Even with the car getting better and better he seems to be getting worse for it. Maybe it's just because we get more airtime?
Kind of would like piastri to out perform him if I'm honest

 

[jaybee]

I still think Russell Is OK.
I dunno what it is. But never been a norris fan. He comes. A across like verstappen a bit for me.

I like sainz, I like piastri, I like the new Hamilton. Even leclerc is OK. But something about norris just annoys me.

Edit.
I think its because he comes across as arrogant. Even with the car getting better and better he seems to be getting worse for it. Maybe it's just because we get more airtime?
Kind of would like piastri to out perform him if I'm honest

Yeah. Most drivers at some point come across as arrogant in the cut throat world of F1, but yes, there is something about him. He's no Damon or Jenson is he.

 

[OldKitMan]

Watched this last night, crazy how many drivers actually got points that season, most likely due to reliability back then, given that only the top 6 places got points as well.

 

[Scam]

I feel the same about Norris and George this season. They've become much less likeable. I don't think it was ever one major thing. Just all the little things adding up over time. I've grown to like and respect Carlos more - even though he has form for being in the way.

George is an odd one because he very much looks and acts like a posh boy, whereas in reality he's actually not. I don't think he gets enough credit for being another decent driver from a relatively normal background, like Hamilton. Norris's Dad on the other hand retired at 36 with a £200m+ in the bank

I think its because he comes across as arrogant. Even with the car getting better and better he seems to be getting worse for it. Maybe it's just because we get more airtime?
Kind of would like piastri to out perform him if I'm honest

Personally the more Norris shows how much he's bezzie-mates with MV then the less I want to do with him Even now Mclaren are very close to being able to compete with RB, Norris keeps joking "oh but it's Max so..". It's like mate you're in F1, you've got the second fastest car on the grid, go get him. Don't make excuses and suck up to RB because you think you might get Perez's seat! I think Piastri will start showing him up soon enough.

 

[jaybee]

George is an odd one because he very much looks and acts like a posh boy, whereas in reality he's actually not. I don't think he gets enough credit for being another decent driver from a relatively normal background, like Hamilton. Norris's Dad on the other hand retired at 36 with a £200m+ in the bank

Personally the more Norris shows how much he's bezzie-mates with MV then the less I want to do with him Even now Mclaren are very close to being able to compete with RB, Norris keeps joking "oh but it's Max so..". It's like mate you're in F1, you've got the second fastest car on the grid, go get him. Don't make excuses and suck up to RB because you think you might get Perez's seat! I think Piastri will start showing him up soon enough.

It's cringe AF when Norris does that. Makes me shiver. We need more anger and aggression. In fact, with Max not having to push drivers off track anymore to win, it's become dull. Isn't it about time we had a scandal as well? When do we find out how much Redbull over spent on crunchy nut cornflakes last year?

 

[Jono8]

It's cringe AF when Norris does that. Makes me shiver. We need more anger and aggression. In fact, with Max not having to push drivers off track anymore to win, it's become dull. Isn't it about time we had a scandal as well? When do we find out how much Redbull over spent on crunchy nut cornflakes last year?

We'll find out the dinner party trays were actually new floors, disguised with BBQ food on them.