Hamilton is 2021 champion then. Cool.
Poll: Official 2023 United States Grand Prix Thread - Circuit of the Americas, Austin - Round 19
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Hamilton is 2021 champion then. Cool.
Is he? As I am sure they had a racing lap and MV was the winner of that single racing lap....
I don't think it's completely random stewards have discretion to test cars that they think might fail. If they were seeing this during the race not surprised they picked Ham and Luc
The camera angle appears different in every shot. Is it even the same corner? One car might be lifting off, the other pinned....etc etc. Not a fair test. You say you are not surprised they "picked" Lewis and Charles. The point is that it's meant to be random. Either it's random and rules are followed, or it's not. It can't just be who the FIA want it to be for a sample. That would throw the sport in to disrepute when they keep picking a certain driver more than others. They also should not be basing any decisions on what they see in the race or hear another team say. The point is that they follow procedures only. Which they did. No problem with that. The argument is why don't they use common sense and then test all cars. This has been answered. Basically because:
a) Why should they. They have fulfilled the obligations and procedures of scrutineering.
b) time
c) cost
d) The fear of having a similar thing to the 2005 GP farce where the whole grid couldn't race, or in this case get DQ'd.
I think it's harsh personally given that George and Carlos will both have been out of spec most likely as well.
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You might be forgetting that the FIA have a ton of data on the cars - remember the sensors to assess bouncing at the start of the era? They can see where cars are outliers and need testings.
Also, they don't draw names from a hat, it's random in that the teams don't know, but the FIA pick specific cars based on available data/suspicion. If that data correlated with the actual findings then they should have reviewed other cars too.
Soldato
Unless it goes against the person you support!
So FIA can mandate that car X gets looked into based on the data they have seen during live race data? Is that above and beyond general post race scrutineering procedures, or part of it purely for selection purposes for specific tests? This is a can of worms.
This all goes away if you do the same test for every car, every race. There's enough money and resource to do it if they wanted to.
I haven’t read the exact regulations but if there is suspicion based on available data, they can call in those cars.
Obviously they wouldn’t need to do that if they tested every car but given that they only test 2-4 cars, it’s likely a resource thing.
I agree with them making it data driven and I agree with either a DQ or penalty, but where action is taken, it should extend to everyone.
Soldato
Not a bad day for Williams at the end, both drivers in points for the first time. As for the race I thought it was fairly boring and gave it a 5.
Only found out about Lewis and Charles when I quickly popped in here earlier. I never like results being changed after the race but have no issues here, it's not like they could check them during the race. I disagree that every car should be check, it would just be massive waste of time and resources as most cars would pass with no issues so random checks are appropriate here.
Only found out about Lewis and Charles when I quickly popped in here earlier. I never like results being changed after the race but have no issues here, it's not like they could check them during the race. I disagree that every car should be check, it would just be massive waste of time and resources as most cars would pass with no issues so random checks are appropriate here.
Soldato
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A couple of points here.
In most random sampling or quality management processes we would see an increase in sample size where there were significant anomalies/non-conformities or statistically significant deviations from expected outcomes. Further investigation is a legitimate mechanism to understand outcomes and better identify root causes.
As to whether the FIA has time to check all cars, well I’m not 100% sure. But the timelines on the reports seems to suggest they managed to check 4 cars, meet with the teams and produce the final reports announcing DQ’s in less than 2 hours? Or have I read that wrong?
If that is true, it does not seem to be beyond the realms of possibility to check every car?
Shame for Lewis and Charles. I suspect there’s a fair few other drivers that got away with it this weekend!
However, I suspect that is true at any other weekend too!
Rules are rules and the price for getting it wrong at this level in international sport can rightly be very high.
We can’t very well denigrate Massey/FIA for the 2021 season finale where it would seem the rule book was not properly followed and then denigrate the FIA for this time applying the current rules as documented.
I’m sorry to see Lewis lose his points etc but at the end of the day his team needs to do better. They took a chance knowing how scrutineering works and it didn’t pay off. That’s just how it goes with gambling. Don’t build in sufficient contingency and risk DQ, or do and risk being a bit slower but safe from DQ.
That’s the way I see it anyway.
In most random sampling or quality management processes we would see an increase in sample size where there were significant anomalies/non-conformities or statistically significant deviations from expected outcomes. Further investigation is a legitimate mechanism to understand outcomes and better identify root causes.
As to whether the FIA has time to check all cars, well I’m not 100% sure. But the timelines on the reports seems to suggest they managed to check 4 cars, meet with the teams and produce the final reports announcing DQ’s in less than 2 hours? Or have I read that wrong?
If that is true, it does not seem to be beyond the realms of possibility to check every car?
Shame for Lewis and Charles. I suspect there’s a fair few other drivers that got away with it this weekend!
However, I suspect that is true at any other weekend too!Rules are rules and the price for getting it wrong at this level in international sport can rightly be very high.
We can’t very well denigrate Massey/FIA for the 2021 season finale where it would seem the rule book was not properly followed and then denigrate the FIA for this time applying the current rules as documented.
I’m sorry to see Lewis lose his points etc but at the end of the day his team needs to do better. They took a chance knowing how scrutineering works and it didn’t pay off. That’s just how it goes with gambling. Don’t build in sufficient contingency and risk DQ, or do and risk being a bit slower but safe from DQ.
That’s the way I see it anyway.
I think its more you wanting to make it a can of worms, no one else is questioning it this hard.
I'd like your evidence on enough money and resources to achieve those type of tests, for every car, beginning and at the end of every GP, every GP weekend.
I'll wait.
Nope. Rules are rules! (apparently)
Soldato
Not sure why anyone cares, we have thoroughly established in recent years that F1 is not a sport, and merely entertainment that makes rich people richer. Stop watching it if you think it is fair and follows it's own rules, as it isn't, doesn't and it never, ever, will.
This does not describe F1. This describes Sport as a whole.
Every Sport has its own version of BS running rampant through it.
You're making the assumption that Ferrari and Mercedes did something intentional. More likely they have no interest in taking a risk, and were merely trying in the limited window, to run the car as low as possible to gain optimum advantage. In other words, no different from any weekend. The fact a few drivers (and the TV pictures showed) mentioned the track was very bumpy should be taken into account, also.
Unfortunately that seems to happen with anything, whenever money gets involved.
100% - Every sport has the same problem, regardless of what fence you sit on.
Soldato
The thing is what are the teams going to do during that time? Say it takes 5hrs to check all cars, sure they might be able to start packing but likely they would have to change their logistics, especially on back to back race weekends. It's already a long day for the crews as it is and this would just make it even longer and likely eat into the budget cap, especially if they need to hire more staff.
Soldato
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Yep. So they know the track is bumpy. They know they will have limited time to set the car up. They know this creates a foreseeable risk of floor damage or adverse plank wear. With this information freely to hand, they decide to run the car at a particular ride height.
This decision was poor but nevertheless a conscious one.
But I’m careful not to conflate a conscious decision to set a certain ride height with a conscious decision to try and cheat the system and gain an unfair advantage you understand.
At the end of the day, the Merc team has some of the best people in the business and I’m finding it very difficult to believe they didn’t know that increased plank wear would be a foreseeable risk with their chosen set up.
What I find odd, Is that if your floor plank is slightly more worn for a race, you get disqualified and have your chance at 2nd in the championship wiped out.
If you drive all season in a car that broke the cost cap rules to produce, you lose no points, no championship places and your team gets a lolworthy nothing fine that your billionaire owners see as pocket change and likely laugh at....
If you drive all season in a car that broke the cost cap rules to produce, you lose no points, no championship places and your team gets a lolworthy nothing fine that your billionaire owners see as pocket change and likely laugh at....
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They are dealing with 1mm tolerances errors will happen. The lack of heavy load running during practice probably meant they were picking numbers out of the air based on previous races.
You on about the same team who could not identify if the pit lane had been closed?
Some of the best in the business.
You do know that you can move on mate, you know how everyone has to move on in life at one stage, right?
Outside of that, your comedy routine needs some work.
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