Poll: Official 2024 Miami Grand Prix Race Thread - Miami International Autodrome - Race 6/24

[jaybee]

Your post is missing one thing...

Max was 2nd at the restart, a car length or more behind lando at the restart and finished 11 plus seconds behind him in a far superior car....

Few races ago max was in a similar position and flew past whoever was 1st within a couple of laps.

Actually it was against Hamilton in the sprint race in Japan...

Sorry but norris wasn't lucky.

His car on the day was faster than max. End of

I said he held Max off. This was impressive yes. Just very hard to overtake round Miami. It was a good drive by Lando. Obviously Lucky though. Not sure why people are getting so worked up about this. It's ok to have some luck! They don't have an SC crystal ball. It's gambling and luck on whether one comes.

Isn’t planning how to gain maximum advantage from a Safety Car period at tracks where it’s very likely to happen based on past races a normal “day at the office” for an F1 team?

Yeah but it's still lucky if it happens.

 

[Steedie]

I cannot stand Norris, but fair play, he's finally got that win and maybe pushes on from here. McLaren should be commended for going from a poor position two years ago to being the second best team (probably) now. That's a hell of a development process. Mercedes should be ashamed of themselves that they've gone backwards if anything. It says a lot that the W13 is likely to still be their best ground effect regs car come the end of this season

 

[jonneymendoza]

I said he held Max off. This was impressive yes. Just very hard to overtake round Miami. It was a good drive by Lando. Obviously Lucky though. Not sure why people are getting so worked up about this. It's ok to have some luck! They don't have an SC crystal ball. It's gambling and luck on whether one comes.

Yeah but it's still lucky if it happens.

Held?

Lol he finished way ahead of max...

Look up the definition of held.

Perez in the meantime did held Hamilton for a number of laps....

Norris was coasting in the last 10 laps...

 

[Mr Jack]

McLaren should be commended for going from a poor position two years ago to being the second best team (probably) now. That's a hell of a development process. Mercedes should be ashamed of themselves that they've gone backwards if anything.

Indeed, McLaren are doing a fantastic job. I think Merc got oddly hurt by Russell's win in Brazil 2022 because it misled them into thinking they were on the right path and needed to refine instead of realising that the zero side-pod was the wrong idea. Whereas the other teams have been developing their cars for two and a bit years, Merc have essentially been developing their current car for less than a year.

Still 3rd best car in 2022, 2nd best car in 2023, and probably 4th best this year isn't the total failure that seems to be the popular impression.

It says a lot that the W13 is likely to still be their best ground effect regs car come the end of this season

It's not even close. The problem isn't that they've gone backwards, it's that other teams have improved more.

 

[Kenai]

Not sure why people are getting so worked up about this.

You know why, it's because there's a difference between having luck go your way and calling something a 'fake win', which is language you've chosen to use knowing it would antagonise people happy to see Norris pick up his first win.

 

[AlphariusOmegan]

Has this been changed? Didn't they use to pass the safety car until it picked up the leader and then form up behind them?

not that i can tell but then who knows with the FIA and FOM https://www.fia.com/sites/default/f...orting_regulations_-_issue_1_-_2023-09-26.pdf is the current sporting regs, page 61 (save everyone who wants to find it searching ) section 55 deals with the safety car.

I think the confusion might be that once the SC has collected all cars then unlapped cars will be allowed to pass the SC, only once the SC indicated they can do so, so that they're not a lap down, in previous SC's i "think" that the leader has been in the pack at the same time as everyone else so that it only allows those who have been lapped past however in Miami Norris would have been in effect 1 lap in front of everyone else (even though not lapped) rather unique and rare situation i think but handled properly by the Race Director here.

 

[utajoker]

have merc made a step forward. i wasnt paying full attention to the race but seem to remember hamilton all over perez for a good few laps after the safety car, just unable to pass due to no top speed.

he finished 2 seconds behind in the end.

 

[Jimbeam3678]

A large part of this forum seem to be mostly fans of 1 or 2 drivers versus fans of F1 i.e. they vote on how their driver did regardless of whether the racing was good or not.

I gave it a bonus point for Lando winning, but it's a dull track and cars seemed to struggle more than normal with overtakes. Personally, voting a 9 or 10 out of 10 is almost impossible/incredibly rare, I can't see how this could be higher than 7.

Likewise a small selection of posters like to be controversial, seemingly for the sake of it.

 

[jaybee]

Look up the definition of held.

Perez in the meantime did held Hamilton for a number of laps....

I'm familiar with the word, and how to use it in the correct tense unlike yourself apparently.

You know why, it's because there's a difference between having luck go your way and calling something a 'fake win', which is language you've chosen to use knowing it would antagonise people happy to see Norris pick up his first win.

There has been a lot of emphasis on Lando picking up his first win for a long time. For me, it's not a true win when it's gifted via a safety car. That's just my opinion. It conflicts with yours. Nothing wrong with that. What language would you prefer me to use? "Lucky" has already caused offence to some lol.

have merc made a step forward. i wasnt paying full attention to the race but seem to remember hamilton all over perez for a good few laps after the safety car, just unable to pass due to no top speed.

he finished 2 seconds behind in the end.

Hard to say. Really is. At times it looks better, but they are probably still battling to be 4th fastest car with Aston?

 

[Kenai]

What language would you prefer me to use?

You can use whatever language you like, it's just funny watching you pretending not to understand why branding his win as fake might wind people up, you knew exactly what the reaction would be

 

[Steedie]

It's not even close. The problem isn't that they've gone backwards, it's that other teams have improved more.

Sorry I should have said successful. W15 is obviously technically better, but it’s not getting the results the W14 or even 13 did

 

[jaybee]

Sorry I should have said successful. It’s obviously technically better but it’s not getting the results the W14 or even 13 did

Newey has spoken a few times on how the key to success of the Redbull in this ground effect era, is the focus around "the suspension working properly". Perhaps they have something with their suspension which is allowing the cars rake angle and ride height to keep more constant, more of the time throughout a lap? This is how they have avoided porpoising Newey was saying. I think Merc tried a very extreme method to fix it in America last year where they just slammed the car but then had issues with plank wear. Perhaps Redbull have some kind of chassis and suspension setup in combination with flexing components which keep the car in a finely tuned window.

 

[cuke2u]

Lando was 4th place before the pit stops. For example on LAP23:

1: VER interval
2: PIA +3.604
3: SAI +6.267
4: NOR +9.547

Then everyone had pit except him and it was like this on LAP 28:

1: NOR interval
2: VER +11.538
3: LEC +2.785
4: PIA +1.092
5: SAI +2.933
6: PER +8.777
7: TSU +3.167
8: ZHO +11.643

So Norris would have come out with the usual approximately 20 second time loss in the pits. This would have put him back down in about 6th place probably just coming back out ahead of Perez.
But then the safety car picked up Max (not Lando who came out the pits as leader) and on LAP 30 it looked like this as Lando came into the pits:

1: NOR interval
2: VER +31.955
3: LEC +2.785
4: PIA +1.170

Then the SC pulled over and let the whole pack go through and up to the back of Lando and then they all came round back behind the SC again I believe. In any case, Lando gained massively as he went from what would have been 6th/5th at best, to 1st.

This is why I was referring to it as a "bit of a fake win". No it's not trolling. I'm just pointing out it was massively helped by SC. Yes he held off Max which was still very impressive, but he's not beaten them on pure performance. He's got ahead due to SC and Max could not follow on this track in the dirty air.

Shall then negate some of Lewis's wins and WC's for the same reasons?
It is also incorrect about Max's car as he complained the whole weekend about lack of grip, in fact he was very surprised to get pole and stated as much. Also in the race his car was damaged causing excessive tyre degradation.
Norris was the fastest over the weekend with the mediums but just didn't get the single lap times in when it mattered. The majority of pundits stated he was the fastest as well.
A win is a win, not a fake one..

 

[jaybee]

Shall then negate some of Lewis's wins and WC's for the same reasons?

Ah yes, let's bring Lewis into it. That's the logical and rational thing to do when discussing anything in Formula 1.

Also in the race his car was damaged causing excessive tyre degradation.

I've seen some people say he was tagged by Perez into turn 1 but have not conclusively seen evidence of this. Does anyone know if he did? It looked like he missed him.
With regard to the bollard he hit, not sure if that did much? There is a lovely meme of that going around though where the bollard is flashing past Max's head with the caption "simply lovely".

 

[cuke2u]

Ah yes, let's bring Lewis into it. That's the logical and rational thing to do when discussing anything in Formula 1.



I've seen some people say he was tagged by Perez into turn 1 but have not conclusively seen evidence of this. Does anyone know if he did? It looked like he missed him.
With regard to the bollard he hit, not sure if that did much? There is a lovely meme of that going around though where the bollard is flashing past Max's head with the caption "simply lovely".

If you are presenting an argument that a race win is some kind of fake because of circumstances then yes I can bring any other examples I like into it of where that theory can also be applied. Sorry if that hits a nerve but you can apply the same to any race win where the safety car has come into play.,
Please read the 'What the teams said, Race day' I have posted below:

What the teams said – Race day at the 2024 Miami Grand Prix | Formula 1®

The drivers and teams report back on all the action from the Miami International Autodrome for the 2024 Formula 1 crypto.com Miami Grand Prix.

www.formula1.com

 

[AlphariusOmegan]

Ah yes, let's bring Lewis into it. That's the logical and rational thing to do when discussing anything in Formula 1.

just to interject how i've interpreted your comment about a "bit of a fake win", everyone uses Lewis as an example, i suspect because he's one of the better well known drivers but would you also say that the following are "fake wins"

1999 Canada for Mika Hakkinen
2009 Australia for Jensen Button
2009 Monza for Rubens Barrichello (SC didnt even come out on track but was called)

there are plenty of other times too where a SC has been called and the race ends on the SC.

My personal opinion on this is that the SC is a part of the racing rules therefore whether its called on lap 1 or lap 51 does not invalidate in any way the drivers win. If something happens outside the rules that affects the outcome then I could agree with your sentiment but ideally the rules are there so that it won't often be the case.

 

[jaybee]

If you are presenting an argument that a race win is some kind of fake because of circumstances then yes I can bring any other examples I like into it of where that theory can also be applied. Sorry if that hits a nerve but you can apply the same to any race win where the safety car has come into play.,
Please read the 'What the teams said, Race day' I have posted below:

What the teams said – Race day at the 2024 Miami Grand Prix | Formula 1®

The drivers and teams report back on all the action from the Miami International Autodrome for the 2024 Formula 1 crypto.com Miami Grand Prix.

www.formula1.com

But of all the drivers there have ever been, you select Lewis. You do this at any opportunity in F1 threads to have a pop at Lewis and anyone that might support Lewis. Your predictable and pathetic behaviour on here does not go unnoticed.

 

[jaybee]

just to interject how i've interpreted your comment about a "bit of a fake win", everyone uses Lewis as an example, i suspect because he's one of the better well known drivers but would you also say that the following are "fake wins"

1999 Canada for Mika Hakkinen
2009 Australia for Jensen Button
2009 Monza for Rubens Barrichello (SC didnt even come out on track but was called)

there are plenty of other times too where a SC has been called and the race ends on the SC.

My personal opinion on this is that the SC is a part of the racing rules therefore whether its called on lap 1 or lap 51 does not invalidate in any way the drivers win. If something happens outside the rules that affects the outcome then I could agree with your sentiment but ideally the rules are there so that it won't often be the case.

I was making the point that Lando's very first win, the one that everyone has been waiting for and harping on about.... wasn't the dominant beating of all competition in an out and out battering. Max had damage and there was an SC that gifted it. I'm sure he'll get more wins in time. It's just a shame his first one was a bit meh. Just my opinion though.
And about Lewis...no. Everyone does not use Lewis as an example. There are select members on here that like to have a pop and bring the Max vs Lewis debate up often, despite when talking about completely different drivers/situations. It's been called out by mods before yet they still do it. EDIT: I mean in a way to cause rubbish content and trolling/arguments etc unnecessarily and completely off topic.

 

[jonneymendoza]

have merc made a step forward. i wasnt paying full attention to the race but seem to remember hamilton all over perez for a good few laps after the safety car, just unable to pass due to no top speed.

he finished 2 seconds behind in the end.

Meanwhile, norris finished over 10 seconds ahead of max but apparently he was lucky and max was being held by norris...

Maybe norris has an invisible rear shield that spams between 3/4 corners in miami that held max...

 

[Mesai]

Sorry I should have said successful. W15 is obviously technically better, but it’s not getting the results the W14 or even 13 did

It depends on how you look at it.

Ferrari and McLaren are consistency better than Merc with Alonso doing what he can for AM, whereas previously those teams were wildly inconsistent; this leaves Merc as a solid 4th (5th if Lance Stroll left).

The W13 and W14, while not great, were just more consistent at a time where teams were still trying to fully understand their concepts.