*** Official Dota 2 Thread ***

Murray said:
I just feel like people are complaining because they lost and had a few bad teammates and are blaming it on the whole they were a 5 stack thing. I know for a fact that the role someone plays and the hero they are on more than a lot of things at this level, for example I am AWFUL at support, I don't support my carry enough, I forget to place wards a lot of the time, I miss stacks and I'm not near fight a lot. That's because I never play it. I can have a much bigger impact on games in the offlane or in mid. I can do the basic things like always buy wards, deward, smoke gank, buy tp's for my carry/mid when they die, etc but I am GAME LOSING on support(ask anyone I've supported here recently) and I feel like its the same for a lot of people at around 3-4k mmr.
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Can't confirm, Murray best support 2k14.
 
I didn't find the solo queue times much longer than normal matches before ranked MMR was enabled, so not sure why the queues would somehow go to 25 minutes now?

Plus it would be an opt in option like before, it wouldn't force you to have longer queue times if you didn't want it.

I don't agree with jubei's idea about smaller groups not playing ranked though.
 
No idea why anyone would be against limiting ranked queues to solo or 5 stacks to keep it easy to balance. Whats wrong with just playing normal games with your friends if you cant find 5 to play with?

Also disagree with murray, comms at any level makes a big difference to call for good plays/ganks and communicate strategy effectively. Even if only 1 other person on your team communicates well it can make a massive difference.

Player skill is a small part of this game, its a team game at the end of the day and no amount of skill (seriously, there are like 4 buttons get over yourself) is going to make up for an afk or some feeders on the team under normal circumstances. Even taking something like a lycan/prophet to solo push is no good if the enemy fives up and smashes down a lane feeding on your team over and over.
 
I'm talking about queues at a higher MMR, CAI. it doesn't matter to people like us but will to people at 6k. I've seen people wait 20 minutes for a game on stream before and adding more options to the matchmaking will make that take longer.


Jubei, I've never heard stupider things in my life. I think I'm gonna pretend you don't exist with your terrible idea now.
 
Murray said:
I know for a fact that the role someone plays and the hero they are on more than a lot of things at this level, for example I am AWFUL at support,
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Yeah you are pretty much dhruvies level of support where it's ok to go and roam while you leave your carry to solo farm against 2 enemy heroes.
 
Murray said:
Jubei, I've never heard stupider things in my life. I think I'm gonna pretend you don't exist with your terrible idea now.
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Your arrogance amuses me in this thread lol. I am sure a lot of readers who have never played dota get the impression you are this brilliant oracle of dota that you make out. I on the other hand remember playing inhouse matches with ocuk last year and you were quite simply chaff to balance out the better players.

Buy hey man, keep spouting your elitist nonsense in here I am sure some people here take note of what you say, but i'm not one of them.

In the future if you want to respond to a point/question of mine then give some reasons or counterpoints of your own, not simply 'HEH' or this tripe above.
 
You do realise most of the stuff I say is me trolling right? I don't think I'm good at the game at all, actually I'm pretty ****ing terrible but you seem to fall for it so its entertaining for me :p

Also you can improve a lot in a year, its a long time.
 
Murray said:
Jubei, I've never heard stupider things in my life. I think I'm gonna pretend you don't exist with your terrible idea now.
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Disclaimer: I don't particularly like Murray.

But Jesus **** he is right here. You see some ridiculous stuff on the Internet, but please God, delete or edit that post. It's such a horrible idea. I just want to clarify; HORRIBLE. IDEA.
 
Murray said:
??? There is nothing wrong with people who aren't 5 stacks playing in ranked matchmaking, it would cause uproar to change that since hardly anyone plays unranked seriously anymore. People blame the other team being 5 stacks on a lot of loses when really that isn't the reason. Your team having worse players? Sure, maybe but thats matchmaking not the amount of players in a party.


Maybe they could add a solo queue only option again but they removed that because queues were gonna be huge. Would you rather have a 25 minute queue with only solo queue players playing with other solo queue or have it like it is now? I know which I'd rather have.

At the mmr we are all discussing here it hardly matters about communication, player skill is EASILY the most important factor. At 5k+ mmr sure communication means a lot more but I've hardly seen people at that level complain about it because I really don't think they care since they already experience long enough queues as it is and wouldn't want that made even longer.

I just feel like people are complaining because they lost and had a few bad teammates and are blaming it on the whole they were a 5 stack thing. I know for a fact that the role someone plays and the hero they are on more than a lot of things at this level, for example I am AWFUL at support, I don't support my carry enough, I forget to place wards a lot of the time, I miss stacks and I'm not near fight a lot. That's because I never play it. I can have a much bigger impact on games in the offlane or in mid. I can do the basic things like always buy wards, deward, smoke gank, buy tp's for my carry/mid when they die, etc but I am GAME LOSING on support(ask anyone I've supported here recently) and I feel like its the same for a lot of people at around 3-4k mmr. I can tell you that putting anuraj mid won't do you any favours at all towards winning a game, it would be horrible to experience since he's hardly played it and doesn't know what to do, I know mid is a role thats taken quickly by a lot of players but its the same for pretty much any role.

Does this mean that a 5 stack that are all on heroes they play the best might be a harder game? Sure but you are gonna have to beat players at the same mmr as you to get better, communication or no communication. Maybe it'll feel a bit more satisfying when you have a tough game that you win and see they are a 5 stack? But the players at higher mmr are gonna be way harder than the ones at your level with communication, a lot of five stacks don't even use voice comms.
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More of this Murray please.

Murray said:
Jubei, I've never heard stupider things in my life. I think I'm gonna pretend you don't exist with your terrible idea now.
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Oh wait :rolleyes:
 
I couldn't be bothered typing out anymore when he clearly didn't even read anything I wrote. So I'll just pretend that idea never existed because I've actually never heard anything worse.
 
jubei said:
No idea why anyone would be against limiting ranked queues to solo or 5 stacks to keep it easy to balance. Whats wrong with just playing normal games with your friends if you cant find 5 to play with?

Also disagree with murray, comms at any level makes a big difference to call for good plays/ganks and communicate strategy effectively. Even if only 1 other person on your team communicates well it can make a massive difference.

Player skill is a small part of this game, its a team game at the end of the day and no amount of skill (seriously, there are like 4 buttons get over yourself) is going to make up for an afk or some feeders on the team under normal circumstances. Even taking something like a lycan/prophet to solo push is no good if the enemy fives up and smashes down a lane feeding on your team over and over.
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I kind of agree with wanting to play vs only solo quers when I'm soloing (sometimes it gets really annoying if you have a terrible stack on your team and the enemy stack is decent) but it isn't the end of the world if you play vs stacks, I've won just as much as I've lost vs stacks tbh.

As for communication, I actually have to say that the better people get, the less communication you need, I que all the time on russian servers and get full games where I can't read one word for 40 minutes but as long as you know how to read the flow of the game so to speak you don't really need to communicate because you already know what you need to do, where you need to be, what your current priority is etc. (obviously at lower levels communication would be more vital, also this is just ranked pubs I'm talking about).

The thing is though, my point above is only really valid in the 4-5.5k regions roughly AFAIK, when you're below that or you want to break above 5.5k and hit 6k+ a lot of the time you will need to communicate a lot (I learnt this the hard way when trying to break 5.5k) players like fata got to 6k+ the fastest because they went Ranked CM mode, picked himself a snowballer mid and would just call every movement on the map (when to rosh, when to smoke, when to push) for their team and pretty much spoonfed them the win, not to take anything away from his skill as a player but it can be so hard to win some days.

Also I noticed a comment below saying something about 1 year can improve you a lot. I think even in 6 months any 3k player could get 5.2-5.5k, it's just a matter of playing to improve rather than playing to win, you can play every day for years and not improve at all (I've seen it a lot of times) but if you're actually playing with the aim to get better and doing it correctly you can improve very fast, but it is pretty hard to improve on your own, Dota has always been the type of game where someone better than yourself could tell you something you're doing wrong or something you aren't doing at all and you would be like "I can't believe I didn't think of that, it's so simple" and it can improve your gameplay 100x over, but you can also be told things that can't really be explained outright (can't even think of example right now) and you have to look out for these things and experience them yourself then somewhere down the line you'll suddenly understand wtf it was that you were told so long ago, I swear this game is like a more modern or "futuristic" chess, the more you play the more you realize you actually need to learn and just how complex the game is.

I didn't mean for this post to end up this long, it's pretty late and I'm tired, sorry if it was boring!
 
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I think at a certain point watching your own replays helps you improve a lot as well, you notice mistakes a lot more when watching yourself play. I play dota to improve but I think if I actually want to start improving I need to stop playing with people around 1k mmr below me as it messes up the bracket a lot of the time and the games are a lot easier than they should be but solo queue can be very depressing a lot of the time.


Watching a lot of pro players/pubstars streams helped me improve at dota a lot or it just teached me things I never knew. The game has so much depth thats its almost impossible to comprehend. It would take so much work to know every single thing.

I also play 1v1 mid against a player at 5k mmr sometimes and I feel like it helps me improve my mid quite a bit, since he wrecks me most times and I slowly start to learn more from the way he plays mid and such.
 
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Murray said:
I think at a certain point watching your own replays helps you improve a lot as well, you notice mistakes a lot more when watching yourself play. I play dota to improve but I think if I actually want to start improving I need to stop playing with people around 1k mmr below me as it messes up the bracket a lot of the time and the games are a lot easier than they should be but solo queue can be very depressing a lot of the time.


Watching a lot of pro players/pubstars streams helped me improve at dota a lot or it just teached me things I never knew. The game has so much depth thats its almost impossible to comprehend. It would take so much work to know every single thing.

I also play 1v1 mid against a player at 5k mmr sometimes and I feel like it helps me improve my mid quite a bit, since he wrecks me most times and I slowly start to learn more from the way he plays mid and such.
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Watching your own replays can help as long as you can actually identify your own mistakes and correct them, otherwise it's useless, also it's good to watch replays of games you won, not just lost. You learn the most from replays where you lose but you can still find a lot of flaws in won matches.

I think 1v1s are good for mechanical skill but that's about it, you have to mix up your training a bit, I know a lot of players who are mechanically insane, like 1v1 they could keep equal CS with some of the tier 1 mids but you have to remember that real games are never like 1v1s and also the whole "1v1 phase" only lasts for the first 10 minutes at the very most, after that it's all down to game sense and not so much mechanical skill.

Also one point people need to realize is that CS isn't everything when you're talking about the mid lane, you could be 60/30 @ 10 minutes as invoker vs storm, if the storm decides to play smart and go rape the map and you're not there already to countergank, this happens a few times and suddenly the mid you won is irrelevant.
 
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Yeah, you're right. Mid isn't all about the laning stage, I think its Dendi that proves this the most.

Iceiceice is right about it here I think.

 
I swear I'm losing the will to live with this game.

Consistently grouped with Idiots who probably have a combined IQ of .1 between them.

I really don't get it, how people can pick the way they do.

Anyone online tonight, Really need some people who know what they're doing!
 
Sinny said:
I swear I'm losing the will to live with this game.

Consistently grouped with Idiots who probably have a combined IQ of .1 between them.

I really don't get it, how people can pick the way they do.

Anyone online tonight, Really need some people who know what they're doing!
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Just grin and bare it and stay positive mate I'm still at a relatively low mmr (3050) but it does get better albeit gradually, the best thing I can recommend is to just keep telling your team mates to stay positive, especially if they're particularly toxic and if they really are clueless rather than say "wtf why didn't you buy X, or why didn't you skill this way" say "maybe buying item X would be a good idea here" maybe you already do this idk but I found massaging other peoples egos helps me win a lot more.
 
I find playing Captains mode games gives me a nicer time.

Sometimes the picks are pretty poor admittedly but games are not often totally 1 sided. There is some good To-ing and fro-ing in them.
 
Beat a 4 stack with a team of randoms.

Razor player had a great game and me as Zeus and Gyro played solid wingmen (ended 9/3/15) was so fun when we were all despairing at the start :p
 
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