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***Official Intel Haswell Thread***
- Thread starter Yaayuh!
- Start date
Broadwell is due sometime in 2014 and its essentially a die shrink of Haswell - 22nm to 14nm - on the same socket. Its also when Intel start to migrate some of their desktop CPU's over to BGA. Its a repeating tick-tock (or tock-tick?) cycle, similar to what we've seen recently with Sandy to Ivy.
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I think you mean successor?
If it comes to that, we also know that Skylake and Skymont will follow Broadwell.
Performance has saturated, mainly because they are powerful enough. Now efficiency comes
I would say performance has saturated because of physics (speed of light/electrons isn't fast enough) and diminishing returns (multi-cores). Somehow I doubt Intel engineers sit round a table and decide not to make their chips go ridiculously faster.. unless they know something we don't and are holding back on purpose / woooo conspiracy.
The Simpsons said:
Rant near over: FarCry 3 suffers from the same stutter/treacle feeling I got in GTA4 - I'd just be happy if they made games that worked
Associate
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Intel won't push their performance forward any harder than they need to make money.
It's not cost effective to bring out your best version of a technology and sell it once when you can bring out several, slightly improved iterations over time, while you R+D your next tech.
AMD aren't forcing Intel to push their technology forward to drive sales, so Intel are just taking their time and milking sales when they could probably produce much faster computers if they wanted to.
They're continuing to push performance, the 3930K blows all mainstream processors out of the water (and will Haswell too), but like you said because of a lack of competition they can charge a massive premium for it and allow their mid-range to compete with AMD.
If they lowered 3930K to £200-250 AMD would be dead and buried but then they'd have to sell the rest of their range at far lower prices and profits will be hit across the range.
If they lowered 3930K to £200-250 AMD would be dead and buried but then they'd have to sell the rest of their range at far lower prices and profits will be hit across the range.
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Or perhaps with AMD out of the game they'd own the market and be able to sell for what ever they felt like anyway. Either way its win-win for Intel right now. Big fish, small (and rapidly shrinking) pond. And either way they're both loosing interest in this market segment, still tied to it atm, but working their way out of it and into a new(ish) one vs ARM & Co.
Caporegime
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Performance hasn't saturated, software has, when half the pc's sold are very slow dual cores, particularly on laptops for power reasons, and when laptop sales were outgrowing desktop sales over the past 5 years, software is aimed at laptops more than anything else now(consumer software) and the investment in pushing the boundaries in gaming and lots of other area's in terms of CPU power has been dire at best.
Haswell will actually somewhat remedy that, so will Kabini, sticking a shedload more speed in laptops thanks to lower power and efficiency, means the low end performance is being raised the most it has for any generation in donkeys years, its actually a very good thing, but boring for the current top end.
haswell is going to be boring unless Steamroller ends up so blindingly competitive than Intel final produce a mainstream non APU, 6-8 core Haswell for sub £300, then we'd be talking.
99% of enthusiasts don't much care for the IGPU and would take two more cores any day, I'd take a quad core 2500k without a GPU and save myself £30 if the option were there(for my computer, for builds for parents/family/friends, the gpu is a great option... well was before Trinity
).
Haswell will actually somewhat remedy that, so will Kabini, sticking a shedload more speed in laptops thanks to lower power and efficiency, means the low end performance is being raised the most it has for any generation in donkeys years, its actually a very good thing, but boring for the current top end.
haswell is going to be boring unless Steamroller ends up so blindingly competitive than Intel final produce a mainstream non APU, 6-8 core Haswell for sub £300, then we'd be talking.
99% of enthusiasts don't much care for the IGPU and would take two more cores any day, I'd take a quad core 2500k without a GPU and save myself £30 if the option were there(for my computer, for builds for parents/family/friends, the gpu is a great option... well was before Trinity
).I'm in the market for a new computer soon as I'm running an old Phenom X4 955 rig at home and would like to update. Presumably it's worth waiting for Haswell (I'm not in desperate need; one at home is fine at the moment) - will it still be on the same socket and use the same memory as Sandy/Ivy-bridge? I'm going to start collecting bits and pieces as they go on offer (SSD, memory etc) but presumably I'll have to hold out on the motherboard as they'll release a new chipset for the Haswell processors.
Poor example
the 2550K was a higher clocked 2500K without iGPU (technically one with a failed + disabled iGPU) that retailed for basically the same as a 2500K.
Associate
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No, it will be using the new LGA 1150 Socket, which will also be the same socket for Broadwell.
Welcome to OcUK
Presumably new socket means a more expensive motherboard!Does Haswell offer enough of a performance gain to justify not getting an Ivy Bridge? I've read that preliminary benchmarks suggest a slight bump in performance of the order of about 10%. Presumably if it's a new socket and new processor line the Ivy Bridge processors and motherboards will drop a little in price, which then makes the decision a little more difficult.
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Welcome to OcUK
Does Haswell offer enough of a performance gain to justify not getting an Ivy Bridge? I've read that preliminary benchmarks suggest a slight bump in performance of the order of about 10%. Presumably if it's a new socket and new processor line the Ivy Bridge processors and motherboards will drop a little in price, which then makes the decision a little more difficult.
Thank you
Leaked benchmarks are showing around 5-10% increase in performance. The leaks may be from early versions haswell, which have not been "polished". Most of us wasnt expecting any more than 10% anyways but were expecting more cores.
Im also in the same boat. Ive been waiting for haswell since I built by i7 920 rig. I do like the latest technology when I decide to upgrade.
If the new chips come with a soldered heatspreader and overclock significantly better than Ivy then it will probably be just about enough for me to justify the upgrade, I suspect that a lot of others will feel the same.
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The game has changed, it's not about power now, it's about efficiency, the power is already there.
In fact for a non-gamer/non-video editor, the power has been there since Core 2 Duo CPUs. The slowest modern Intel i3 will far out do the requirements of an average consumer's needs.
The enemy now is ARM. There is a very clear move towards mobile computing, phones, tablets and thin ultrabooks that deliver power, small sizes and last all day, it's a "touch" decade. And Intel has no answer, the chips are powerful but they require fans, they heat up and drain battery. Look at Microsoft Surface, it's a reference product for the future products, but right now it's thick, it's got fans and it only lasts a few hours.
Haswell has started the move in the right direction for Intel, and it's supposed to have very good GPU to boot. It's going to be interesting what Intel manages to bring with Skylake and Skymont CPUs. I wonder if they will be able to make the chips efficient, yet powerful enough to enable fanless, thin laptops and tablets.