Olympic female badminton players face charges

[estebanrey]

Exactly. If I paid £££ to go to somewhere like Old Trafford or Wembley and watched both teams sticking the ball in their own net to give themselves a better draw i'd be fuming.

They should have warned them both, then DQ'd them both.

There's a video on Youtube where a football team deliberately scores an own goal to take it into extra time. They are playing in some weird competition where goals scored in ET count as double in goal scored stat terms and when they were winning they didn't have a good enough GD to go through so they had to take it into extra time so they could score again and win with a higher GD.

Very weird to watch, they promptly changed the rules later though. As they clearly need to do in Badmington.

 

[MooMoo444]

The equivalent would be spain 2-0 in their football WC group B, and deliberately losing their final game to avoid playing Germany, who already finished 2nd in their group A.

Except by deliberately losing, they would just blatently score own goals and pass the ball to the other teams strikers.

Would you say that is not cheating? Do you think they would get away with that without being DQ for match fixing? Not a snowball in hells chance.

 

[hsp70]

what's the difference if they tried to lose obviously or appear to be making an effort? The answer is no difference at all except they tricked the audience.

Perhaps a more grey area would be if Spain needed only 1 more point for a better draw so played for a draw. They would also not be playing to win, and what if by doing that a team in the same group that would only qualify if Spain won? Would they be considered cheated out of qualifying?

Whenever competitions are in these sort of formats then these sort of tactics occur. Like it or not. I don't consider it cheating, more unsavory gamesmanship. All the teams want to win the tournament and are just giving themselves the best chance.

If Spain handed a wodge of cash to the ref for the result then that's cheating.

 

[estebanrey]

The equivalent would be spain 2-0 in their football WC group B, and deliberately losing their final game to avoid playing Germany, who already finished 2nd in their group A.

But do you honestly think Spain would "use one's best efforts to win a match" at the same time either? No they wouldn't, they'd field a weakened team and instruct their players not to go in to hard and to avoid incoming tackles as much as possible which would have a large effect on their 'best abilities'.

You can't really do the same in a 2 man sport like badminton, you can't field other (weaker) players so all you can do is just not try which is what they did.

It's a cliche but for me this a case of not blaming the 'playa' but blaming 'the game'.

 

[MooMoo444]

But do you honestly think Spain would "use one's best efforts to win a match" at the same time either? No they wouldn't, they'd field a weakened team and instruct their players not to go in to hard and to avoid incoming tackles as much as possible which would have a large effect on their 'best abilities'.

You can't really do the same in a 2 man sport like badminton, you can't field other (weaker) players so all you can do is just not try which is what they did.

It's a cliche but for me this a case of not blaming the 'playa' but blaming 'the game'.

But I said they would deliberately score own goals etc. These badminton players deliberately served out and into the net repeatedly. Playing to lose rather than just not trying.

If they had just "took it easy" they would have gotten away with it. The fact it was so blatant is why it's had to have action taken against it.

 

[estebanrey]

But I said they would deliberately score own goals etc.

But in football you don't need to score own goals if you can field a weakened team who aren't going in for challenges.

How can you recreate the effect a weakened team has in football in badminton for example, you can't so I'm not sure comparing the two is the best analogy.

These badminton players deliberately served out and into the net repeatedly. Playing to lose rather than just not trying.

Fine but that's not the charge levelled against them which is "not using ones best efforts to win", which is why I cited the example of a football team fielding their their subs in a game they don't need to win, they aren't are doing their 'best' to win either.

 

[hsp70]

But I said they would deliberately score own goals etc. These badminton players deliberately served out and into the net repeatedly. Playing to lose rather than just not trying.

If they had just "took it easy" they would have gotten away with it. The fact it was so blatant is why it's had to have action taken against it.

i don't think you can compare the two sports like that. You can't draw in badminton nor can you knock the shuttlecock back and forth until the end of the match. You either score a point or lose a point.

 

[Truszy]

When the format of any competition causes a situation that undermines the incentive to win a given game, the format has failed. This is the organiser's fault, not the player's.

The incentive to win a game does not have ultimate contribution to winning the overall competition, therefore; you cannot ensure anyone competes to their full potential.

Even if it looks like they're trying, how does the audience know that they are trying when they know that there's an incentive not to?

 

[fez]

When the format of any competition causes a situation that undermines the incentive to win a given game, the format has failed. This is the organiser's fault, not the player's.

The incentive to win a game does not have ultimate contribution to winning the overall competition, therefore; you cannot ensure anyone competes to their full potential.

What a load of rubbish. You cannot create a format in every sport that removes the likelihood of redundant games. Any tournament that relies on league stages runs this risk and running everything as a knockout is just plain stupid.

I don't see how people can say that there is no difference between turning up and not playing at 100% and what those players did. They knew the rules and they should have played as well as they could. Fine, if they don't give it everything I don't have an issue but they took the ****.

Even if it looks like they're trying, how does the audience know that they are trying when they know that there's an incentive not to?

You can't look like you are trying when you are not. Unless you have absolutely no idea about a sport, its pretty obvious when someone isn't trying. They don't move as quickly, miss simple shots, never look tired or overexerted. As strange as it may seem, people can gauge your effort levels pretty well based on your previous matches.

 

[Truszy]

What a load of rubbish. You cannot create a format in every sport that removes the likelihood of redundant games. Any tournament that relies on league stages runs this risk and running everything as a knockout is just plain stupid.

There may be redundant games but if the outcome in late stages can be used as a tactic in the overall competition then what do you expect?

I don't see how people can say that there is no difference between turning up and not playing at 100% and what those players did. They knew the rules and they should have played as well as they could. Fine, if they don't give it everything I don't have an issue but they took the ****.

Competitors should be competing, not putting on a show. The Olympics isn't just an exhibition!

You can't look like you are trying when you are not. Unless you have absolutely no idea about a sport, its pretty obvious when someone isn't trying.

If they're not giving it their everything, to me, this isn't trying, yet you don't mind?

They don't move as quickly, miss simple shots, never look tired or overexerted. As strange as it may seem, people can gauge your effort levels pretty well based on your previous matches.

That is completely subjective, and not everyone watching a sport is going to know everything about it or have even seen it before. That is one of the joys of the Olympics. Regardless, if I was watching a competition of the world's top athletes, supposedly competing to be the best, I would want to know that was the case.

 

[Amleto]

Fine but that's not the charge levelled against them which is "not using ones best efforts to win", which is why I cited the example of a football team fielding their their subs in a game they don't need to win, they aren't are doing their 'best' to win either.

You conveniently left out the other charge of

'conducting oneself in a manner that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the sport'

That kinda puts a different spin on it, dont it?

 

[drunkenmaster]

Why so many saying it's not cheating? They were not taking it easy, which would be understandable, they were trying to lose!

Cheats got what they deserved.

I fail to see the cheating at all. Personally I disagree with it, people harp on about football and styles, how you play but ultimately football and all other sport is entertainment, if its not entertaining it shouldn't be on. Those players turned up to compete in front of paying customers and didn't provide what those people paid for.

If you go to the cinema and buy a ticket for whatever film, and it stops working 15 minutes in I want my money back. They paid for something and didn't get it.

As for cheating, its okay to play to win, but its not okay to play to lose, that makes no logical sense, losing is not cheating. There is a game and there is always a loser(okay most of the time), has every person/team that has lost before been cheating? Cheating isn't a good argument, they broke none of the rules as laid out, they weren't doping, they weren't using non regulation equipment nor did they shoot the other team.

As I said, I disagree with it, they failed to live up to the moral responsibility placed upon them by agreeing to compete in the competition, to provide the entertainment of a badmington match to those who were paying to see it.

Sport is entertainment, people PAY to be entertained by sport, if you don't entertain, people won't pay, your job is gone. They let their teams(as in team china/whatever) down, and their fans, and the customers.

The sport let them down also, they shouldn't have to compete in a format that puts you in a situation where you can get effect which game you get next by not winning your next game.

I'm not a fan of mini leagues moving into knockout stages, it will almost always encourage this type of thing and we've seen it in football for donkeys years. As always its the money men trying to get the big names into the final to milk more cash from sponsorships. If you do a mini league then knockout round, randomise the draw so no one can know who they will play and try to effect that by changing results.

 

[drunkenmaster]

You conveniently left out the other charge of

'conducting oneself in a manner that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the sport'

That kinda puts a different spin on it, dont it?

The people who came up with the rules for this particular competition are also guilty of that charge by having a competition where you can gain by throwing a game. As in post above, mini league's onto knockout stages HAVE to have some level of randomisation of opponents to absolutely wipe out any chance of this kind of thing happening.

It happens in dozens of sports every single year, its pretty much retarded. Japan said they did this in the football in this olympics, they didn't want to beat their opposition so they didn't. Ultimately they didn't want to be thrashed, didn't score own goals, and unlike a badmington game you can't score 21 own goals and end the match in 15 minutes, you still got 95mins or so of football in that game and they still played properly to prevent themselves being beaten. The fans still got a game and some real football was played. But they essentially fixed the result, happens in euro competition every year in football, and in many other sports and its easy to fix.

The biggest reason for the "fixing" of rounds is seeding teams and trying to come up with the most marketable finals. Fifa don't want to see Barca and Real knock each other out at the lowly group stage, or the first knock out stage, they want to make it a mega final with more expensive tickets and more expensive advertising.

 

[DB_SamX]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/five_rin..._so_teams_won_t_be_rewarded_for_tanking_.html

It went over my head, but for anyone interested, have a read.