One thing I like about Britain

dirtydog · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:26

The point of the handgun ban is not that it in itself will end all gun crime. It is just a part of the jigsaw.

It needs to go hand in hand with other measures, like very tough penalties for owning an illegal gun, or using a gun in a crime. Draconian penalties. The current laws - as on so many crimes - are pathetic and no deterrent.

Sadly while the prisons are running at OVER capacity, as now, the politicians will never implement tough sentencing for crimes.

Why don't they build more prisons :mad:

silverpaw · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:27

I think it's a problem Britain has in other areas too; you could smuggle in a dozen indian elephants without customs noticig. Same goes for drugs, illegal immigrants and everything. It seems so easy.

Liverpool-Lad · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:28

Originally posted by dirtydog
Why don't they build more prisons

Capital punishment?

arty · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:29

Originally posted by silverpaw
I think it's a problem Britain has in other areas too; you could smuggle in a dozen indian elephants without customs noticig. Same goes for drugs, illegal immigrants and everything. It seems so easy.

This I tend to agree on. My Dad, who flies to America on business every 6 months or so, commented on the enormous step-up on security in American airports compared to British ones after 9/11. Even so, he is still searched more in British airports than American ones (must be his shortness / the beard

)

arty

dirtydog · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:30

Originally posted by Liverpool-Lad
Capital punishment?

No I don't support that.. I would support life means life for, say smuggling guns into the country though.

Gilly · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:30

Originally posted by arty

The laws on legally owning a gun in America are vastly more relaxed than here - I know people who have simply gone out, ordered a handgun at a shop and received it within 24 hours. There is no way you could do that here with the amount of (necessary) bureaucracy you are forced to go through to legally own a gun

I wasn't talking about in America, if you just take into account the bit that I quoted, that applies everywhere, not just in the US.

Originally posted by silverpaw
I think it's a problem Britain has in other areas too; you could smuggle in a dozen indian elephants without customs noticig. Same goes for drugs, illegal immigrants and everything. It seems so easy.

HMC&E is going through massive changes at the moment.

Hopefully things will be better once the changes are implemented.

Ex-RoNiN · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:31

Ok, so lemme re-cap?

I am not allowed to own a firearm, as I may be stupid enough to misplace or lose or have it stolen by some punk. The fact that I may have paid £500-£1000 for it and might look after it does not come into effect?

Secondly, I am not allowed to own airsoft rifles and other airsoft guns, because again I might be stupid enough to have them stolen by a scally or because some scally may buy a cheap one and take potshots at people?

In both cases, I have to suffer because of the SUPPOSED actions of others?

Is that right :confused:

Liverpool-Lad · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:31

Originally posted by dirtydog
No I don't support that.. I would support life means life for, say smuggling guns into the country though.

I see your point there but I dont want to sidetrack this and start a whole new debate.

arty · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:34

Originally posted by Gilly
I wasn't talking about in America, if you just take into account the bit that I quoted, that applies everywhere, not just in the US.

I'm just talking about Britain - the laws on security for legal gun owners are so much stricter here that I find it extremely hard to believe that the majority of our illegal firearms are stolen from legal British gun owners.

Does that make sense? I'm getting tired

arty

AlienSlof · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:36

Originally posted by dirtydog
Get another hobby

Why should I get another hobby? I'm happy with my shooting - due to my poor health it is the only sport I can fully enjoy that gets me outside. I shoot in competitions and fully enjoy what I do - I love the challenge of getting the bullets in the middle! All of the people I shoot with at my club are regular people, all respectable members of society. A large amount of security is required before you can even apply for a gun licence which is a good thing. A steel cabinet and full home security, ie: solid doors windows and locks, plus a good and reliable burglar alarm are a necessity. This is all then checked out by a police officer to make sure it fulfils regulations. You then have to be fully checked out both criminal and health records for any possible sign that you might be unstable.

It's not us legal gun owners that are the problem, we have never been the problem - it's people who buy and sell arms in the local pub that are the real problem. Don't tar all shooters with the same brush please.

arty · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:39

BTW, kudos to all for keeping this sensitive discussion topic pretty civil

. I know other forums where flames would have taken over by now

arty

AlienSlof · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:44

Remember too, it's not guns that are the problem really - it's people. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns are just a tool used to do so, like knives and screwdrivers and whatever else.

silverpaw · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:48

Originally posted by AlienSlof
Remember too, it's not guns that are the problem really - it's people. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. We are not all maniacs.

Er, I don't think that's the greatest soundbite going in defence of guns tbh. Guns along with bullets kill people, no human can throw a lead slug at 800mph through another human's skull from 20 yards, it's just not possible. Guns are the ultimate threat and shooting someone, IS very easy. There's far less to go wrong than there is stabbing or using another method. Apart from anything handgums are designed to kill people, there's something wrong with that imo.

AlienSlof · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:49

It's still a human on the trigger end with the desire to kill. I've never had any desire to kill anyone or anything, so why should I have my outdoor hobby taken away?

Christo · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:50

Originally posted by AlienSlof
Remember too, it's not guns that are the problem really - it's people. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns are just a tool used to do so, like knives and screwdrivers and whatever else.

True - I think America is a good reflection of the difference in gun laws IMO and look what is happening there.

Gilly · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:52

Originally posted by arty
I'm just talking about Britain - the laws on security for legal gun owners are so much stricter here that I find it extremely hard to believe that the majority of our illegal firearms are stolen from legal British gun owners.

Does that make sense? I'm getting tired

arty

Yeah, it does make sense, and I concede that the vast majority of firearms will come from other sources, but I still believe that the less guns there are manufactured, the less guns can get to the criminal element, if you see what I mean?

Originally posted by AlienSlof
Remember too, it's not guns that are the problem really - it's people. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Be a lot harder to kill someone by pointing a finger and shouting bang

arty · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:57

Originally posted by Gilly
Yeah, it does make sense, and I concede that the vast majority of firearms will come from other sources, but I still believe that the less guns there are manufactured, the less guns can get to the criminal element, if you see what I mean?

Fair enough - I just think that a good deal more effort should be made to stop the flow of illegal firearms rather than the few legal ones in this country.

Incidentally, I am 100% against gun crime and the sort of laws they have in America. I also don't shoot and have no particular desire to.

We need Brasseye :cool:

arty

BBBBBBmous · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:59

Originally posted by punky_munky
Have you seen Bowling for Columbine? If you haven't then I suggest you watch it , you might find it interesting.

Bowling for Columbine is full of blatant lies and inaccuracues. It's a fictional "documentary" that has helped the lying, money grabbing Michael Moore make a lot of money and promote himself.

Gilly · 2 Apr 2003 at 00:59

Originally posted by arty
Fair enough - I just think that a good deal more effort should be made to stop the flow of illegal firearms rather than the few legal ones in this country.

I also believe that more should be done to stop firearms coming into the country, and as I said earlier tonight, there are reforms going through Customs at the minute, so this should improve.

AlienSlof · 2 Apr 2003 at 01:00

Well, banning legal guns is not the answer - gun crime has actually gone UP since the handgun ban, so work that one out. The crimial element are not getting those from stolen legal sources, now are they, thay can't, we aren't aloowed to own them any more. So where are they getting them? Banning guns won't stop gun crime - never has, and never will.

*edit - hehehe I'm too slow - this was a reply to an earlier post!