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OnLive - threat to all gaming hardware

The sooner this idea gets knocked on the head and forgotten about, the better.
It would give us poorer looking games at lower resolutions (for us PC users), it'll also be laggy as **** and just not work due to our laughable slow internet speeds and nazi ISP's...

Hopefully OnLive fades away very soon and the people responsible for it go bust.

fibre is like 100mbps... OnLive is talking about wanting 5mbps for 720p which is pretty much available to most homes in the UK...
BT are trying to roll out 24mbps across the UK and Virgin are making 10-25-50-100mbps available to UK homes at quite an alarming rate

In the real world though, we get hideous throttling, hilarious fair useage policies, massively underwhelming speeds and just a general underperformance all-round.
OnLive needs to die a death, before it deludes more people.
 
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The idea is nice but there are far to many issues as mentioned above. Also who games at 720p on the pc. That is a resolution of 1280 * 720. That is even less than a standard dell 17" monitor, let alone a 22" wide-screen (which is fairly standard now a days amongst gamers). The games are gonna look crap on people screens :/
 
The sooner this idea gets knocked on the head and forgotten about, the better.
It would give us poorer looking games at lower resolutions (for us PC users), it'll also be laggy as **** and just not work due to our laughable slow internet speeds and nazi ISP's...

Hopefully OnLive fades away very soon and the people responsible for it go bust.

In the real world though, we get hideous throttling, hilarious fair useage policies, massively underwhelming speeds and just a general underperformance all-round.
OnLive needs to die a death, before it deludes more people.

Why would you hope for a company to die and go bust? I'm thinking that perhaps I posted this in the wrong section of the forum... the one full of those that have just spent a lot of money building their own games machines to hear the possibility it may be wasted... am I ok to assume that the majority of OcUK members aren't going to go down with a fight if this does take off?

To the guy who said it will be blocked at driver level: remember, all you need is a screen... doesn't require any operating system I don't think.

About internet speeds... well they are improving and by the time that everyone is using OnLive I can imagine that there will be internet good enough. First the people with access to these internet speeds will be able to use it and then those who cannot... again its like saying that YouTube will fail because odd people can't achieve speeds to play it at.

I have access to an internet speed good enough to play OnLive but the bandwidth a month required I don't. (I can imagine they would have to change their policy or bring out a new package for this). Perhaps a little optimistic but soon all computers will be just dumb terminals utilising the benefits of cloud computing

The idea is nice but there are far to many issues as mentioned above. Also who games at 720p on the pc. That is a resolution of 1280 * 720. That is even less than a standard dell 17" monitor, let alone a 22" wide-screen (which is fairly standard now a days amongst gamers). The games are gonna look crap on people screens :/

It may look crap on your machine but how about on one that can't afford to buy all the latest equipment or one who doesn't have access to it? (in the office, at uni etc) And not to mention the immediate access to any game without the need for downloading anything :P
 
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Why would you hope for a company to die and go bust? I'm thinking that perhaps I posted this in the wrong section of the forum... the one full of those that have just spent a lot of money building their own games machines to hear the possibility it may be wasted... am I ok to assume that the majority of OcUK members aren't going to go down with a fight if this does take off?

To the guy who said it will be blocked at driver level: remember, all you need is a screen... doesn't require any operating system I don't think.

About internet speeds... well they are improving and by the time that everyone is using OnLive I can imagine that there will be internet good enough. First the people with access to these internet speeds will be able to use it and then those who cannot... again its like saying that YouTube will fail because odd people can't achieve speeds to play it at.

I have access to an internet speed good enough to play OnLive but the bandwidth a month required I don't. (I can imagine they would have to change their policy or bring out a new package for this). Perhaps a little optimistic but soon all computers will be just dumb terminals utilising the benefits of cloud computing

You did not post it in the wrong section, you posted it on the wrong forum period!
This does not offer anything to users here which they can not already have in a sense.
Your talking about standardised gaming with out the freedom to tweak things to our own individual liking, we have games Consoles already that do just that & it makes no difference that its being rendered from afar.

This will appeal more to the people who prefer console gaming.
720P is a joke so that will not make most PCs here on this forum useless.
 
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Your talking about standardised gaming with out the freedom to tweak things to our own individual liking, we have games Consoles already that do just that & it makes no difference that its being rendered from afar.

Exactly, this is just a games console that is introducing more problems than it needs to. The running costs of on live will be astronomical and price of it will be passed onto the end users. How often will rendering hardware have to be replaced to make way for newer, better looking games. Every 6 ~ 12 months? That is is if they allow games to be made to look better.

Also, the bandwidth issues are for only one pc playing a game. What happens when there is a shared internet connection. At uni we could have had 5 people playing games at once in our house. That would require at 25Mb connection :eek: . Even just having two people playing would need a 10Mb connection, which is way out of reach for a lot of people. This coupled with input lag (which will happen), i just cant see it working.
 
fibre is like 100mbps... OnLive is talking about wanting 5mbps for 720p which is pretty much available to most homes in the UK...
BT are trying to roll out 24mbps across the UK and Virgin are making 10-25-50-100mbps available to UK homes at quite an alarming rate


Im talking more about caps/throttling/contention in the evenings/FUP's... the simple truth is that many people would not get a consistant judder free experiance as the internet in the UK stands right now.

To do what they suggest would mean introducing prioritised traffic ( in the uk at least ) and as we all know thats the start of the slippery slope to a pay-per-view internet.
 
Look at iplayer and the bandwidth it uses(some isp are moaning about that and they wanted bbc to pay a fee) and that is just steaming video there will be a lot more headaches with games.
As the hardware and software get more powerful it will put more strain on the net or they a set standard that doesn't improve.
To the person who is moaning about comments would you use onlive or buy a new ps4/x720?.
Because for a lot of people it is a downgrade e.g. would you use this system if the games looked/played like ps2/xbox1 games when you have a ps3/360?.

edit:- over the lifetime of a console for someone who rents most of their games where is the saving look how much a 360 cost now (i know 720/ps4 will more likely cost a lot more)and i bet you will have to pay a lot more then you do for connection to their servers than what ever xbox live is and psn.
 
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Exactly, this is just a games console that is introducing more problems than it needs to. The running costs of on live will be astronomical and price of it will be passed onto the end users. How often will rendering hardware have to be replaced to make way for newer, better looking games. Every 6 ~ 12 months? That is is if they allow games to be made to look better.

Also, the bandwidth issues are for only one pc playing a game. What happens when there is a shared internet connection. At uni we could have had 5 people playing games at once in our house. That would require at 25Mb connection :eek: . Even just having two people playing would need a 10Mb connection, which is way out of reach for a lot of people. This coupled with input lag (which will happen), i just cant see it working.

I didn't bother going into detail about the lag which is already bad enough on consoles even now & my friends keep moaning that in COD4 that they sometimes get a few rounds into some one before they got killed themselves only to see in the kill cam that they were already dead before they even raised the gun.
 
You've not posted it in the wrong section, you've posted it on a computer forum and the device was immediately called on it's poorness.

If you take off the 'Joe Public' hat and stop buying into marketing BS, you'll eventually think, "Hey, this wont work..."
We don't live in the ideal world where everyone has unlimited bandwidth and ISP's are happy to be uncompetitive and lose profit. The system will not work for us, and many games would be an utter joke.
Think of the latency!!! Would be awesome playing an FPS on it... *cough*

I want this company to go bust and disapear for 1 reason. So that they can stop trying to revolutionise gaming into an early, broken & shattered grave.
I like having pysical media, I like not having to be connected to the internet to play games, I like resolutions higher than 720p...

Forgetting visuals and lag... What would the audio quality be like on this disgusting travesty?

intellix said:
I have access to an internet speed good enough to play OnLive but the bandwidth a month required I don't. (I can imagine they would have to change their policy or bring out a new package for this).

Maybe you do, in theory, but it'd still be a capped, juddery, fair useage nightmare.
 
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I have stayed neutral in this argument, so what makes you think I'm buying into this marketing BS?

I just think it's silly when people say that they prefer one thing and shoot the concept down there and then.
"I prefer physical media", why? personally I prefer to have a catalogue of digital media such as the one I have built up over steam...

Joe Public hat? I'm just like everyone else because I don't buy the latest hardware, test it on the latest game, post a topic, update my signature and repeat? A little close-minded to assume that there are two groups of people (those inside your community and those 'Joe Publics' that are not) :o

As someone said earlier I guess this is for the console market who actually prefer to play games rather than test them... but hey that's your hobby
 
I have stayed neutral in this argument, so what makes you think I'm buying into this marketing BS?

I just think it's silly when people say that they prefer one thing and shoot the concept down there and then.
"I prefer physical media", why? personally I prefer to have a catalogue of digital media such as the one I have built up over steam...

Joe Public hat? I'm just like everyone else because I don't buy the latest hardware, test it on the latest game, post a topic, update my signature and repeat? A little close-minded to assume that there are two groups of people (those inside your community and those 'Joe Publics' that are not) :o

As someone said earlier I guess this is for the console market who actually prefer to play games rather than test them... but hey that's your hobby

Who going to use this service? and pay a month fee as the joe public more than likely is happy with free flash games, so who is going to be the target.
 
I have stayed neutral in this argument, so what makes you think I'm buying into this marketing BS?

I just think it's silly when people say that they prefer one thing and shoot the concept down there and then.
"I prefer physical media", why? personally I prefer to have a catalogue of digital media such as the one I have built up over steam...

Joe Public hat? I'm just like everyone else because I don't buy the latest hardware, test it on the latest game, post a topic, update my signature and repeat? A little close-minded to assume that there are two groups of people (those inside your community and those 'Joe Publics' that are not) :o

As someone said earlier I guess this is for the console market who actually prefer to play games rather than test them... but hey that's your hobby

you've bought into the idea because you're arguing it can work, it can't.

Its really down to this, you play CS:S, your computer does all the work, it sends miniscule packets of data to a server which then sends everyones data back to your computer to tell you where they are. Your OWN computer is rendering everything in real time, when OTHER people lag you see them skipping across your screen as their ping is higher, they appear to jerk around and be crappy. But they appear jerky because your own movement is smooth, because your own computer has NO LAG AT ALL.

That is lag, a really great gaming experience in that sense will be sub 20ms ping and everyone else on the same.

THe difference here is that you aren't talking about that one person lagging across your screen you can't hit because he's not where he appears to be, the whole image will be laggy, CONSTANTLY, there will ALWAYS be lag, its unavoidable, its literally impossible to not have some lag. I think the best pings I got where with Bulldog a few years ago, i'd get as low as 8ms to some servers, thats still more lag than I get to my own computer and thats very very very bestcase scenario.

Its simply not feasable to play a game, have a picture sent to you, you want to move your mouse over to where the guy you want to shoot is, you do so, you can't do it instantly it lags, the first bit of movement you won't see for a 1/4 of a second, by which time the guys gone, so before you even SEE your cursor over the guy he's really gone.

Also you mention you would have access to ALL games. How exactly, the bandwidth, processing needs for one game alone will be astronomical, you can bet that every single new game will need an entirely new cloud server and one for each continent . Then considering you might want to play 1 of 100 games you've previously bought, you would still need a gfx card up to date to play the other games that aren't compatible.

Not only is the idea ridiculous, its impossible and it can in no way replace all gaming. The entire concept on current technology is nonsense, let alone the infrastructural problems with regards to ISP's, bandwidth, trottling and peak time traffic. ANyone with a ping over 4ms will have a disgusting experience.

THe few games you might get away with, WoW type games might, just might get away with it, but the experience will be closer to being in the busiest town and getting lag, even if in the most remote area in the game. Even then a huge number of the newer MMO's are moving to direct control attacks, aiming your bow/gun/sword, none of those would work well.

These concepts are great, thats fine I have no problem with that. But its for a LONG way in the future when the majority of a country would have something along the lines of no lag whatsoever, so a complete and utter replacement for the entire worlds internet, which ain't gonna be anytime soon.

What we almost certainly will see is home computers move away from a one per person situation, and people will have a centrally located box for the whole house with remote screens, mice/keyboards and a 32core cpu that the whole family can run their own version of windows on, with their own stuff installed, and the ability to spread the load around the cores/memory.

So instead of 4 quad core computers with 4gb mem, you'd have a single 32 core cpu with 16gb mem in one room under the stairs that no one can hear, with a screen and keyboard/mouse in every room you want to use the computer. thats about the only future we'll see for "cloud" computing.
 
Anyone heard of OnLive? gaming on demand where the server does all the rendering and calculation stuff, then sends it back to a client... which will allow games such as Crysis to run at maximum settings on something like a Mac Air...

It also looks like its going to crush Console gaming too

Anyone got any comments? Really can't wait for it to become available...

Impossible with the current hardware available.

Imagine the hardware requirements for running Crysis in a Virtual Enviroment then multiple that by the number of users. Then you have the latency issues with passing all that data between the session and user. It's BS.
 
you've bought into the idea because you're arguing it can work, it can't.

Its really down to this, you play CS:S, your computer does all the work, it sends miniscule packets of data to a server which then sends everyones data back to your computer to tell you where they are. Your OWN computer is rendering everything in real time, when OTHER people lag you see them skipping across your screen as their ping is higher, they appear to jerk around and be crappy. But they appear jerky because your own movement is smooth, because your own computer has NO LAG AT ALL.

That is lag, a really great gaming experience in that sense will be sub 20ms ping and everyone else on the same.

THe difference here is that you aren't talking about that one person lagging across your screen you can't hit because he's not where he appears to be, the whole image will be laggy, CONSTANTLY, there will ALWAYS be lag, its unavoidable, its literally impossible to not have some lag. I think the best pings I got where with Bulldog a few years ago, i'd get as low as 8ms to some servers, thats still more lag than I get to my own computer and thats very very very bestcase scenario.

Its simply not feasable to play a game, have a picture sent to you, you want to move your mouse over to where the guy you want to shoot is, you do so, you can't do it instantly it lags, the first bit of movement you won't see for a 1/4 of a second, by which time the guys gone, so before you even SEE your cursor over the guy he's really gone.

Also you mention you would have access to ALL games. How exactly, the bandwidth, processing needs for one game alone will be astronomical, you can bet that every single new game will need an entirely new cloud server and one for each continent . Then considering you might want to play 1 of 100 games you've previously bought, you would still need a gfx card up to date to play the other games that aren't compatible.

Not only is the idea ridiculous, its impossible and it can in no way replace all gaming. The entire concept on current technology is nonsense, let alone the infrastructural problems with regards to ISP's, bandwidth, trottling and peak time traffic. ANyone with a ping over 4ms will have a disgusting experience.

THe few games you might get away with, WoW type games might, just might get away with it, but the experience will be closer to being in the busiest town and getting lag, even if in the most remote area in the game. Even then a huge number of the newer MMO's are moving to direct control attacks, aiming your bow/gun/sword, none of those would work well.

These concepts are great, thats fine I have no problem with that. But its for a LONG way in the future when the majority of a country would have something along the lines of no lag whatsoever, so a complete and utter replacement for the entire worlds internet, which ain't gonna be anytime soon.

What we almost certainly will see is home computers move away from a one per person situation, and people will have a centrally located box for the whole house with remote screens, mice/keyboards and a 32core cpu that the whole family can run their own version of windows on, with their own stuff installed, and the ability to spread the load around the cores/memory.

So instead of 4 quad core computers with 4gb mem, you'd have a single 32 core cpu with 16gb mem in one room under the stairs that no one can hear, with a screen and keyboard/mouse in every room you want to use the computer. thats about the only future we'll see for "cloud" computing.

Well said you put it better than i could
 
sure, it sounds impossible but we will have to see really... I'm sceptical about what they're saying but that's the amazing thing about technology...

Yeah I know about lag... and you don't actually see people juddering around because of the prediction code making it appear smooth... perhaps something might similar might come into play here?

They might be running on biological systems that they have been developing for 7 years but again it might be bull...

Obviously if it's as laggy as you say then it's not here to replace competitive FPS gaming but there are other genres out there also you know... Perhaps its here to replace casual miniclip gaming but whoooo knows?
 
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Absolutely spot on mate, couldn't have put it better myself.

I am in no way shape or form ruling this idea out for the future, but until this country gets an incredibly better internet system we will NOT see the advantages of this idea.

Have any of you guys tried a busy city raid or fortress on WAR?
The image rendering and hardware side of it is all done on your PC, you can have the best sub 10ms ping, a 8mb + internet connection and a very good PC but the SERVER will crawl to a halt because it can't cope with 500~ people in the same area.

Warhammer Online is a game designed to run with hunderds of people in the same area doing the same things together... the entire backbone of the game is designed to do that, and just push out the data to the users machine. But with raids approaching 500+ people fighting each other EVERYONE expeirences a huge amount of lag FPS dropping to sub 1 frame a second and eventually the server that powers that area of the world restarts itself and you get booted out into a different map.

The biggest of the big MMO's WoW cannot cope with its userbase at times on servers at very busy times and think of the millions that they spend on hardware running the game.

OnLive in summary is an interesting idea... but it'll remain an idea. It will not hit a large userbase any time soon - and unfortunately for it, if OnLive does get a large userbase quickly... it'll get be worse faster as the internet speeds we have available at this present time won't be able to cope.
 
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