**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

[Kamwah]

Terran have the advantage mid game though with strong MMM before there are a lot of and Collosi range

True but as soon as storms comes out (whether they go 2 base HT or not) you're basically screwed and any Toss that uses FFs properly is going to easily survive.

Like last night I had a game on Metalopolis. Was 3v2bases I went in, got a good engagement and thought I was going to decimate what he had as I was doing one of the builds I've seen Polt do. The guy storms cos I didn't realise he'd got HTs as he seemed to have gone the robo route first and my army vanishes in 2 seconds.
I can pull back during the storm but that just lets everything but the HTs attack and I need to keep kiting so that more storms don't come -_-

 

[Gzero]

True but as soon as storms comes out (whether they go 2 base HT or not) you're basically screwed and any Toss that uses FFs properly is going to easily survive.

Like last night I had a game on Metalopolis. Was 3v2bases I went in, got a good engagement and thought I was going to decimate what he had as I was doing one of the builds I've seen Polt do. The guy storms cos I didn't realise he'd got HTs as he seemed to have gone the robo route first and my army vanishes in 2 seconds.
I can pull back during the storm but that just lets everything but the HTs attack and I need to keep kiting so that more storms don't come -_-

I guess the only solution would have been to push forward then since if you fall back he'll have more units plus possibly another storm saved up. Was there something stopping you pushing forward with even a small expendable squad to take out the HT?

 

[Kamwah]

The first storm basically wiped out more than half of my force and I didn't even realise he had HTs which was a fail on my part but it seemed a weird build as he went collosi then HTs really quickly =/
If I had known there probably woulda been too many to kill with a small force.
O well, biding my time till Diablo. They'll nerf Toss one day XD

 

[Gzero]

The first storm basically wiped out more than half of my force and I didn't even realise he had HTs which was a fail on my part but it seemed a weird build as he went collosi then HTs really quickly =/
If I had known there probably woulda been too many to kill with a small force.
O well, biding my time till Diablo. They'll nerf Toss one day XD

One day, and then banelings will be back on the firing line.

 

[Fenris]

TvP is just kinda broken atm.

It really isn't "broken".

All the win statistics from ladder and tournaments show a fairly balanced win rate on both sides, with most tournaments having Terran come out slightly ahead (as in a few %, which doesn't mean anything)

I've said it before and I will say it again, if TvP was as broken as you so zealously claim, it would be noticeable in the stats, which it isn't, because it isn't.

The problem seems to be that you personally can not deal with storm, which does not make it broken.

 

[Kamwah]

It really isn't "broken".

All the win statistics from ladder and tournaments show a fairly balanced win rate on both sides, with most tournaments having Terran come out slightly ahead (as in a few %, which doesn't mean anything)

I've said it before and I will say it again, if TvP was as broken as you so zealously claim, it would be noticeable in the stats, which it isn't, because it isn't.

The problem seems to be that you personally can not deal with storm, which does not make it broken.

Those stats which recently came from David Kim? Those were full of ****. It shows balance but if that was really true then they wouldn't be trying to change a load of things in HotS.

I ain't going to lie and say I don't have a personal problem with Storm but the way it's used by pros and the way it's used on ladder are completely different.
Professional Terrans have micro at least twice of mine.

Storm is the MOST damage a single unit can do apart from a Nuke and we all know how hard it is to land one of those. It is broken without a doubt.
I just don't understand how Blizzard haven't seen it yet.

 

[Fenris]

Those stats which recently came from David Kim? Those were full of ****.

No, the stats that come from MLG, TLPD and the win % from Code S etc.

Why would you say the stats David Kim released are "full of ****"? What makes you qualified to say that?

 

[Kamwah]

No, the stats that come from MLG, TLPD and the win % from Code S etc.

Why would you say the stats David Kim released are "full of ****"? What makes you qualified to say that?

Tournament stats aren't reality, the pros have micro/macro of anyone under GM on ladder will never see.

Anyway, let's have a little look through what happens in TvP during an engagement.

Here is a common situation. Big engagement. ALL **** IS UNLEASHED. Let's go over it play by play.

1. Toss a moves. - 1 action

2. Terran stims, splits and tries to emp. - about 30 actions

3 Toss is still a moving, but he remembered there are templars, now he selects them and makes them move forward 3 actions in total.

4. The terran is still splitting and stutter stepping - 100 actions in total.

5. Toss takes his time looking at what is going on on the battlefield, looks at his base and talks to his mom on the phone. - 4 actions in total.

6. Then the toss sees a clump of units and clicks t with his ht. The templar storms the clump of units. - 6 actions

7. The terran is dodging his heart, moving left and right, the toss scratches his nose. - 200 actions the terran, 7 actions the toss

 

[Fenris]

Here is a common situation. Big engagement. ALL **** IS UNLEASHED. Let's go over it play by play.

You just took that quote from TL, unless you originally posted it in which case your are even less worth anyone's time than I thought.

Seriously, stop whining, it's pathetic.

 

[Kamwah]

You just took that quote from TL, unless you originally posted it in which case your are even less worth anyone's time than I thought.

Seriously, stop whining, it's pathetic.

Ofcourse I did, that's why it's a quote <-- Herp Derp.

It's not whining, just because you can't admit that Storm is imbalanced. This game should be about Micro and Macro. The above quote is how a normal TvP goes and how in any way is Toss micro'ing in that battle?

It's highly likely he'll win and the Terran gets a "Haha **** you, you lost the micro battle" How is that balanced?

Ignorance is bliss...

 

[Fenris]

Ofcourse I did, that's why it's a quote <-- Herp Derp.

It's not whining, just because you can't admit that Storm is imbalanced. This game should be about Micro and Macro. The above quote is how a normal TvP goes and how in any way is Toss micro'ing in that battle?

You have no argument beyond "Storm is broken because I say it is", give us some proof, give us some evidence.

You are whinging and whining and moaning because you lost a few games and can't get over it, your profile says you are 21 years old, act like it.

 

[Kamwah]

You have no argument beyond "Storm is broken because I say it is", give us some proof, give us some evidence.

You are whinging and whining and moaning because you lost a few games and can't get over it, your profile says you are 21 years old, act like it.

I need factual evidence? Well let's see....

Toss has the most AOE units out of all the races and both need to be dealt with in a "certain" way.

Storm does the most damage out of any unit in the game in the shortest amount of time.

They have the most spellcaster units that can change the game in an instant (Storm, Forcefields, Feedback, Vortex)

They have the potential to hit 3 3 upgrades faster than any other race.

If that isn't enough facts then I don't know what will please you XD

I'm not whinging, whining or moaning, if you don't want to read my posts then don't. If you wish to remain ignorant then please do so.

Would like to add I have a Masters Toss account and AOE imba.

 

[SheepBeast]

I don't think storm is quite as imba as Kamwah claims, but I definitely agree with him that the micro burden is massively on the terran which alone is enough to make the matchup broken, regardless of the OP/UPness of individual units/spells.

As I've said many times, the problem is not storm, it's the fact we are forced to mass up balls of squishy bio because everything else we have blows. Take the hypothetical situation that zerg were forced to go mass ling against hellions every game. It would make hellions seem completely OP when really the imbalance comes from the thing forcing the zerg to go mass ling.

EDIT: oh, i do however think that the speed and price that toss get upgrades for is definitely imba. They were fine before the price reduction.

 

[SheepBeast]

oh btw, everyone follow this guy on twitch http://www.twitch.tv/filtersc

He's got some amazing youtube tutorials (someone linked to them a few pages back, but you can just search filtersc on youtube), and I think he deserves a lot more recognition than he's got. He's got a very educational stream for us terran folkss trying to learn

 

[Kamwah]

I don't think storm is quite as imba as Kamwah claims, but I definitely agree with him that the micro burden is massively on the terran which alone is enough to make the matchup broken, regardless of the OP/UPness of individual units/spells.

As I've said many times, the problem is not storm, it's the fact we are forced to mass up balls of squishy bio because everything else we have blows. Take the hypothetical situation that zerg were forced to go mass ling against hellions every game. It would make hellions seem completely OP when really the imbalance comes from the thing forcing the zerg to go mass ling.

EDIT: oh, i do however think that the speed and price that toss get upgrades for is definitely imba. They were fine before the price reduction.

While making Terran able to use mech against Toss would fix it. Removing Storm would definitely fix the matchup as it is now.

I hope HotS brings Mech TvP viability.

 

[Fenris]

I need factual evidence? Well let's see....

Toss has the most AOE units out of all the races and both need to be dealt with in a "certain" way.

Storm does the most damage out of any unit in the game in the shortest amount of time.

They have the most spellcaster units that can change the game in an instant (Storm, Forcefields, Feedback, Vortex)

They have the potential to hit 3 3 upgrades faster than any other race.

If that isn't enough facts then I don't know what will please you XD

I'm not whinging, whining or moaning, if you don't want to read my posts then don't. If you wish to remain ignorant then please do so.

Those are facts yes but so is "The ghost is a terran unit", oddly enough much like the ones you posted it does not mean Storm is overpowered or that TvP is "broken".

If that is the best argument you can come up with then it's no wonder Blizzard doesn't agree with you.

 

[Kamwah]

Those are facts yes but so is "The ghost is a terran unit", oddly enough much like the ones you posted it does not mean Storm is overpowered or that TvP is "broken".

If that is the best argument you can come up with then it's no wonder Blizzard doesn't agree with you.

You've obviously never micro'd a MMMVG battle against a Toss deathball at any reasonable level.

1 requires the methodical thinking of a project manager and the other requires the brains of a monkey with a typewriter.

 

[Fenris]

1 requires the methodical thinking of a project manager and the other requires the brains of a monkey with a typewriter.

You are such an angry person, chill out, drink a beer, do something that isn't raging for 10 minutes, you'll feel better.

 

[Kamwah]

You are such an angry person, chill out, drink a beer, do something that isn't raging for 10 minutes, you'll feel better.

And when I actually bring up you've never done what you're telling me isn't that hard you become a comedian.

lol what an idiot XD

 

[Fenris]

And when I actually bring up you've never done what you're telling me isn't that hard

I never said it wasn't hard

I just said it isnt broken.

You just don't seem to be capable of realising your opinion isn't fact, you are spewing bile I would expect from the blizzard forums, it's childish and doesn't help anyone, especially yourself.