**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

RiseAgainst said:
True. Ath the moment though I am still pretty bad at the game so a I find almost any type of micro hard , still sitting pretty at 45 apm :L
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lol :) do you use SC2 Gears? It's a free program you can download and it's really useful for keeping track of improvements in your play. It also gives you a detailed breakdown of each game, as well as race and map-specific win rates etc. I use it to track my APM growth.

A couple of months ago, after a long break from the game, I was at about 80 (this is measured differently to the APM counter in a replay). After a few weeks of getting back into it, I was up to 130. Then a few days ago I changed my hotkey setup completely (based on my own adaption/combination of this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=326424 and darkgrid) and I was back down to 65 APM lol. It's funny how difficult it is to adapt to a new layout.

I've also found that just sticking with one build every game (maybe tweak a bit for each matchup if you absoutley have to), and playing maybe 5 games a day and just focusing on macro, is the best way to improve. As a protoss player your main challenge is to survive the early game, then mutas/drops later, and build up a deathball. This is more about building/unit positioning and macro, while micro is pretty unimportant.
 
Guest2 said:
Might give it a try, my probes would probably end up on the other side of the map though!
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It's only worth doing if it doesn't throw you off your build. I just hotkey my CC and box my probes, then press my CC hotkey, then repeat, at a leisurely pace. I'm not bothered about "warming up" (anyone below high master is BSing if they think this makes a difference to them) but it's more about just giving me something to do. I suppose it might increase my mouse accuracy gradually, but I'd probably be better off clicking on individual workers for that.
 
SheepBeast said:
lol :) do you use SC2 Gears? It's a free program you can download and it's really useful for keeping track of improvements in your play. It also gives you a detailed breakdown of each game, as well as race and map-specific win rates etc. I use it to track my APM growth.

A couple of months ago, after a long break from the game, I was at about 80 (this is measured differently to the APM counter in a replay). After a few weeks of getting back into it, I was up to 130. Then a few days ago I changed my hotkey setup completely (based on my own adaption/combination of this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=326424 and darkgrid) and I was back down to 65 APM lol. It's funny how difficult it is to adapt to a new layout.

I've also found that just sticking with one build every game (maybe tweak a bit for each matchup if you absoutley have to), and playing maybe 5 games a day and just focusing on macro, is the best way to improve. As a protoss player your main challenge is to survive the early game, then mutas/drops later, and build up a deathball. This is more about building/unit positioning and macro, while micro is pretty unimportant.
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Learn which builds are counter builds and make sure the build you use is a safe one while learning.

111ing if your a Terran every game may win in the lower leagues but it's not a great way to improve.
 
Kamwah said:
Learn which builds are counter builds and make sure the build you use is a safe one while learning.

111ing if your a Terran every game may win in the lower leagues but it's not a great way to improve.
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Well yeah, but in the lower leagues people don't have the mechanics down. The reason for sticking to one build at first is so that they learn it properly and can execute it well. It's hard to maintain constant SCV production and keep your money low if you have to read off a notepad when to build your barracks, or if you keep getting supply blocked.

After they've got the mechanics down reasonably well, then it's time to maybe consider what you should change about the build in response to scouting information. Later on, when the player is confident with this, would be a good time to learn other builds.

To clarify, I wouldn't advocate doing a 1-base all-in every game. I'd say some kind of safe 2-base macro play would be the best. The build that Filtersc does in his vids is actually perfect for this, and he probably decided on it for the same reasons I just listed above.
 
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SheepBeast said:
Well yeah, but in the lower leagues people don't have the mechanics down. The reason for sticking to one build at first is so that they learn it properly and can execute it well. It's hard to maintain constant SCV production and keep your money low if you have to read off a notepad when to build your barracks, or if you keep getting supply blocked.

After they've got the mechanics down reasonably well, then it's time to maybe consider what you should change about the build in response to scouting information. Later on, when the player is confident with this, would be a good time to learn other builds.

To clarify, I wouldn't advocate doing a 1-base all-in every game. I'd say some kind of safe 2-base macro play would be the best. The build that Filtersc does in his vids is actually perfect for this, and he probably decided on it for the same reasons I just listed above.
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Yep safe macro play is the way to go. A lot of learning can be done out of game also, don't just ladder nonstop.
Liquipedia and the Teamliquid forums are great sources of learning as well as watching casts over at SC2Casts because Casters will comment on starts as they're happening (CP and Doa are great at this IMO) and it makes learning just easier.

Remember also that at the lower levels theres the biggest variant of skill levels so don't be disheartened. Also remember to learn from your mistakes.

Having a few days off can also do wonders.
 
PaddyMC89 said:
I know I am in the minority in thinking this, but for me he is completely undeserving of the fame / acclaim he's been on the end of recently. All I see is a guy that plays the game at quite a high level thus has a fairly decent knowledge-base, but with absolutely no charisma, a completely awkward casting style and a seemingly complete inability to annunciate the letter "T"... okay, maybe that last point is a personal annoyance and not something I can be too harsh on him about.

When he's casting alongside the likes of incontrol and Wolf it baffles me that people cannot see how completely inferior he is. He could get away with being a dullard if his knowledge of the game and analysis of the play was completely top notch - like, beyond Artosis levels - but those two guys I mentioned are only a couple of many that also beat him in that regard. And with the likes of Tastosis, Bitterdam, Day9 etc. throwing in excellent banter, wit and all-round entertainment with their high level knowledge, it simply doesn't make sense to me that somebody lacking in every department has seemingly shot to the top of the casting tree (well, not completely... yet) in such a short space of time.
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How can you possibly hate on Apollo but revere Mr.Bitter and Rotterdam? Seriously now.
 
Honestly the only caster I'd say is truly exceptional is Day9. The others are mainly decent but all inferior. Apollo goes in this middle category. There are only a couple who I'd class as bad.
 
SheepBeast said:
Honestly the only caster I'd say is truly exceptional is Day9. The others are mainly decent but all inferior. Apollo goes in this middle category. There are only a couple who I'd class as bad.
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Day9 is definitely the best but when you think about how long he's been around it's not surprising XD

He makes most of the other casters look like babies.

CP and Doa are my two favs.
 
yashiro said:
How can you possibly hate on Apollo but revere Mr.Bitter and Rotterdam? Seriously now.
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Personal preference? The fact I believe they are more entertaining, funnier and offer greater commentary - both informatively and in hyping the situation accordingly - than Apollo?

Commentators seems to be a divisive issue in most sports. I know somebody who thinks Alan Green is the best football commentator in the business, for example ._. The thing with esports is that the casters seem to be more heavily involved than in other sports, so the ones we're less fond of we have to tolerate even longer. I'm already completely fed up of Apollo and I dread the next time he'll be fronting a tournament I want to watch.

I don't hate the guy. He can't help it if his personality annoys me. I simply can't see what it is about him that has so many people within the SC2 community in complete awe.
 
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PaddyMC89 said:
Personal preference? The fact I believe they are more entertaining, funnier and offer greater commentary - both informatively and in hyping the situation accordingly - than Apollo?

Commentators seems to be a divisive issue in most sports. I know somebody who thinks Alan Green is the best football commentator in the business, for example ._. The thing with esports is that the casters seem to be more heavily involved than in other sports, so the ones we're less fond of we have to tolerate even longer. I'm already completely fed up of Apollo and I dread the next time he'll be fronting a tournament I want to watch.

I don't hate the guy. He can't help it if his personality annoys me. I simply can't see what it is about him that has so many people within the SC2 community in complete awe.
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It is personal preference. I think apollo is good, and mrbitter and rotterdam just remind me of two goons and annoy me no end.
 
Husky is my favourite caster by far. then day9 but i find it hard to find matches he commentates on my xbox so i watch him less. its usually his day lessons. i also watch quite a bit of HD casting but its definitely husky for me. hes just got a bit of jokes and knows his stuff. him and day9 often do some dual casts which are rather funny
 
Surprised MKP fell off Code S. He hasn't been doing well since the GSTL finals. He did alright at assembly but I didn't watch the DRG match so I dunno how he was playing.
 
I think it's just a case of an upset rather than MarineKing falling off the pace. He looked the strongest player at MLG until he lost a pretty close final, and remember: DRG also fell from Code S. They're still probably the two best players around at the moment, and they'll both go straight back up. At the very least MKP is still better than any of the Terrans remaining in code S.
 
Wouldnt be so sure, hes really good. Beat koreans plenty of times and just because hes playing in a tourney called gsl doesnt make the players a lot better.

And how can you say day9 is the best caster, tastosis is far better, wolf is just as good and apollo is amazing. Day9 is good but his dailys are better than his casting.
 
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