"Our attempts to make Formula One greener is ruining the sport" - Bernie Ecclestone

[Spie]

This season there are new fuel regulations to go with the quieter V6 turbo engines that have replaced the screaming V8s.

But ahead of tomorrow's Malaysian Grand Prix, F1 boss Ecclestone believes they have got it badly wrong.

"The noise is better than I thought but it's more a sportscar noise," he said. "It is not aggressive enough, it's not what people think of when they think of F1.

"We need to do better."

"It sounds terrible on television, too quiet, and here in Malaysia it is better but probably because down the straights they have roofs on the stands that catch the noise."

Ecclestone has always been against the change to V6s but lost the battle with FIA president Jean Todt, who is determined that his legacy will be more environmentally-friendly motorsport.

"It's not my product, I didn't invent this, I was against it from the start, did not want it. There was no need for them," said Ecclestone.

"I did explain to the FIA World Council that if fuel saving was a problem then we could ask the teams to cut down the motorhomes by half, and instead of Mercedes sending 23 trucks with their motorhome they could cut that.

"If you work out how much fuel the trucks use it is a nonsense compared with the fuel used by the cars.

"We were talking for three years about cost cuts and what happens? You put these engines in and the teams have to spend many millions."

The changeover is the most complicated in F1 history with engines made a third more fuel efficient with the addition of two energy conversion units, which make up in power for the loss of two cylinders.

Noise is power, and using exhaust gases efficiently has caused the quietening.

One suggestion is allowing the teams to channel 20 per cent more gases to the exhaust to create more roar.

"I am concerned that we might lose promoters, sponsors," said Ecclestone. "The Singapore race promoter is here and he said that if they lose a lot of public then they will definitely stop.

"Australia is not happy, the Americans are not happy."

Red Bull boss Christian Horner admits he expects to come a cropped of the new rules again after Daniel Ricciardo was kicked off the podium in Australia for breaking the fuel flow regulations.

Red Bull suffered another failure of the fuel-flow sensor in practice yesterday and Horner said: "Hopefully it will behave for the rest of the weekend.

"If it doesn't then we will find ourselves in an awkward situation.

"We will try to work with the FIA, but then you are faced with the same dilemma as occurred in Australia a couple of weeks ago. Hopefully we can agree something that's sensible.

"F1 is a sport and when technology becomes too prevalent and confuses fans and teams it is not good. Is it good for the sport? No, if it is too complicated."

Source - http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/ot...reener-is-ruining-the-sport-Bernie-Ecclestone

 

[Spie]

If it's not your thing, go watch WEC, NASCAR or some other series.

I think that's what Bernie is concerned about.

 

[Spie]

I love F1, I follow it every year however this year I am struggling to enjoy it.

The sound was the first thing I noticed on the first race, it just isn't what you expect from an F1 car and it just doesn't add to the experience. It just feels really slow and boring, from the sound to the braking (or not as the case may be) on corners it just doesn't feel like F1.

I'll give it a couple more races but I'm not going to keep watching it if I don't enjoy it.

That's exactly how I feel.

I do feel that this year's rule changes will be looked back on as a huge mistake. I believe the popularity of F1 will fall as a result and there will be a return to real engines without the sheer nonsense of the green pretence.

 

[Spie]

You think were going back to NA V12s and no energy recovery?

Your deluded, and blinded by ignorance.

More insults

 

[Spie]

What's the root cause of the engines being quiet, is it the turbo, rev limit, cylinders or a bit of everything?

Turbos, reduced RPM and reduced capacity in that order. In addition the RPM effect is magnified by the maximum fuel flow constraint.

 

[Spie]

It's really a sad state of affairs, when the engine noise is considered a huge factor in a "race". What needs to be sorted is the racing or lack there of. Has been this way for about 10 years.

F1 is more about saving tyres and fuel than actual racing these days. "Lift and coast" is now an essential skill to be mastered in order to have the slightest chance of winning.

 

[Spie]

From the fastest lap chart of the race, there are only 3 cars faster than last year's GP2 cars at the Malaysia track, and 2 of those were the Mercs. How have we got to the situation where F1 cars are slower than a GP2 car?

Expect a chorus of "it's new technology, they will get a lot faster", but with limited aero improvements possible, engines that are already reliable and the ridiculous fuel limits, I just don't believe that will happen to any substantial degree.

Formula 1 is dead. Formula Green has replaced it.

 

[Spie]

You are aware that the cars are faster in a straight line this year. At the last gp they were faster in the speed traps than last year.

.... and yet still substantially slower overall. This years fastest lap at Malaysia was 4 seconds slower than last year. In F1 terms, that's enormous.

 

[Spie]

In terms of pace, it will get quicker. Don't compare this year (first year) with last year (3 or 4 years of minor tweaks, so very evolved cars / designs). They will speed up.

How? There will be no more power available and aero opportunities are severely limited compared to previous years. Oh and the tyres are harder too. Basically it's a castrated formula now.

 

[Spie]

So, my point is that it isn't the engines that are making them slower. It's the tires and aero changes that's lowering the cornering speed.

If these changes were with the older v8s, then they would probably be much slower.

Yes they probably would be slower. But we are not talking about V8s that are slower, we are talking about new "green" V6s that sound like leaf blowers being slower. The overall effect of this year's changes are happy engine manufacturers and a significant number of fans unhappy with what F1 has now become.

You can talk up the new regulations all you like, unhappy fans equals less £££, and that is the only reason F1 exists. For that reason alone I am almost certain this year (and probably next) will be looked back on as the time F1 lost the plot. Hopefully someone will have enough sense to realise this before it's too late.

 

[Spie]

So basically a load of emotionally charged moaning from people who should know what F1 is about and moaning from people who seemingly didn't understand what F1 is about. Combined with some massive rose tinted glasses and forget how F1 has been for decades.

How to rubbish the opinions of many of us who have been watching and enjoying F1 for decades, in one statement!

Perhaps you should be working for the FIA?

 

[Spie]

How would you suggest the situation is resolved?

The problem is that there is a quantum difference between the requirements of the average saloon car engine and an F1 engine. Developing road car technology is all well and good, but not if it interferes with the principles of a racing car engine and not just any racing series, but the supposed pinnacle of motor racing, Formula 1.

There are many problems with Formula 1 today. It is far, far too regulated and yet what has this regulation achieved? The only real benefit I can think of is safety. Nobody cares about fuel flow rates when watching Formula 1. It's a ridiculous concept for the pinnacle of motorsport.

So what should be done? Go back a year, encourage development of new technology without destroying the appeal of the sport. Drop the fake Green credentials. Use engines made by either specialist independent companies or companies who make real sports cars. Learn from F1s history and find ways of making it more exciting again. That would be a start.

 

[Spie]

Would you be happy with an F1 series with only 2 engine suppliers, instead of the 4 that will be racing next year?

Yes I would if it meant using more exciting engines and a return to real racing.

McLaren and Ferrari (and Porsche) all produce hybrids and Ferrari have just released their first turbo charged car since the F40.

The McLaren P1 uses a 3.8L V8 producing a maximum of 903BHP.

The LaFerrari uses a 6.3L V12 producing a maximum of 950BHP.

The Porsche 918 uses a 4.8L V8 producing a maximum of 887BHP.

All 3 cars produce more power than this year's F1 cars.

Notice anything else? Where are the V6s?

Further proof that F1 isn't at the cutting edge anymore. It's just an out of touch, over regulated, boring endurance race. It's popularity has suffered considerably over the last 6 years and this is why.

 

[Spie]

McLaren and Porsche chose the V8 configuration for a reason, as did Ferrari with the V12. Why do you think they did? Why not choose a V6?

 

[Spie]

Look, I'm not against hybrid technology, but they incorporated it into a large capacity V8 or V12 engine. That''s the difference.

So back to my question. Why did McLaren and Porsche choose V8 and Ferrari V12 configurations?

 

[Spie]

For the same reason Ford, Renault, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, VAG, etc use I4 turbos. Because its what there road customers want.

Exactly. They want the highest performing engine. So why are F1 cars using V6s?

 

[Spie]

Yes I know that. But why not V8s? After all the highest performance sports cars in the world use at least that number of cylinders. Why should F1 use less?

 

[Spie]

There aren't any super / hyper cars with a 1.6 engine either.

Exactly. V6 turbo engines are simply not relevant in hyper sports car terms.

 

[Spie]

They aren't using NA V8s because 'number of people buying small turbos' > 'number of people buying high performance V8s/10s/12s' by a factor of many.

They are specifically using V6s due to a combination of the FIA being spineless, Ferrari and Mercedes being vocal, and a few other factors.

The V8 is relevent to a few, the I4 is relevant to many. The V6 is a slightly odd middle ground relevant to nobody, but seems to have been enough of a compromise to keep most people happy enough.

There needs to be a disconnect between the basic configuration of a Formula 1 engine and that of a normal consumer car engine. The 2 are on different planets from each other. Yes, some technology from F1 could and has filtered down into the consumer world, but that's as far as it should go.

Looking back at the history of F1 we have had the most amazing engines for most of that time. Certainly all the major manufacturers are still in business so I really don't accept that all of a sudden we must accept these V6 turbos or nobody will make engines any more.

The problem is that year on year F1 has been subjected to a barrage of ridiculous regulations. I don't need to repeat them, they are well documented. But this year we have reduced fuel capacity, controlled fuel flow, smaller V6 engines, less downforce and harder tyres. It's not a question of just another year of silly changes. The changes this year have now made F1 a bit of a joke.

The only balls out driving is done in qualifying and during the race drivers are more focussed on endurance than being the fastest on the track. It's boring in the extreme.

It's crystal clear that the FIA are responsible for F1s falling popularity over the years by introducing ever more stringent regulations designed to slow the cars down. This year they have done an exceptional job and in doing so have alienated a sizeable proportion of fans, many of whom have been following F1 all their lives.

 

[Spie]

I'm not much for Youtube compilations, but this nearly brought tears to my eyes. This is how I want to remember Formula 1 ...