Over six hundred of us just made redundant

[Judge Mortis]

You could personally insult me. Or, alternatively, you could make my opinion look silly by telling us why YOU think British manufacturing collapsed.

Your choice.

It is my opinion that Unions and the low productivity of the labour force, coupled with poor management practices killed our manufacturing industry throughout the 1970's and 1980's by resulting in us being able to compete with more efficient, cheaper, foreign companies. We've made HUGE improvements over the last decade - look at Honda car production in Swindon for example - but it is too little, too late.

Whats your opinion?

Well the Unions have a lot to answer for as in the 1970s, it wasn't unheard of for the workforce to strike because the supplier of cakes in the canteen was changed and not to their liking. Also, British Leyland workers famously took sleeping bags to work to sleep on overtime nighshifts and when challenged they threatened to strike ... agreed entirely that such behaviour is unacceptable and detrimental to productivity and Mrs Thatcher did indeed wade into such practice with sharpened stilletos.

But, and I'm sure you will correct me if I am wrong or I misread.

You said ...

Because although in the UK we have an excellent selection of designers, our general workforce is, or at least always was, lazy, bone idle and known for shoddy quality.

Now although you were replying to an opinion about French and German motor vehicles, I took your comment to be about the British workforce in general, that is how it read Mr Fox and it is simply not true. Let's take shipbuilding in the UK for an example. The aircraft carriers Illustrious and Ark Royal were built at the Swan Hunter yard in Wallsend which had a reputation worldwide as anything but shoddy and had a workforce where the work ethos was legendary.

Also, take the mining industry in the UK. Solid grafters where laziness was not a general term of description and who exported coal around the country and around the world until the rot set in and that goes for shipbuilding as well. What was that rot? I don't think it was laziness, bone idleness or shoddy work ... it was the cost of labour. These days a shipyard in Singapore can make ships and it's components for a fraction of what a UK yard can. Result? Goodbye Swan Hunter and the industry as a whole just about. Polish coal can be dug up and transported to UK power stations cheaper than it would be for to pay UK mineworkers and upkeep UK pits. Result. The industry decimated as we have seen despite a huge demand for coal.

My opinion? British manufacturing collapsed through being undercut abroad far, far more than the comments you made that I still regard as how I described them.

 

[SpeedFreak]

My redundancy story goes as follows:

made redundant by Boots.
Given 5k to leave
Bought 40ks worth of equipment off them for 2.5k
Work for myself earning better money than they paid.

Use the money wisely and it could be the best thing that ever happened to you.

 

[Morba]

Perhaps one day the government will make it illegal and force firms to accept more expensive ways of doing things.

and then the cost gets passed onto the buyer, of which people will find a cheaper product (a foreign owned and manufactured, imported into the uk). the company forced to charge more slowly goes out of business, forcing redundancies.

gg?

 

[zain]

You could personally insult me. Or, alternatively, you could make my opinion look silly by telling us why YOU think British manufacturing collapsed.

Your choice.

It is my opinion that Unions and the low productivity of the labour force, coupled with poor management practices killed our manufacturing industry throughout the 1970's and 1980's by resulting in us being able to compete with more efficient, cheaper, foreign companies. We've made HUGE improvements over the last decade - look at Honda car production in Swindon for example - but it is too little, too late.

Whats your opinion?

A few hours ago I'd have called you ignorant and narrow minded D) but that is a fair assumption to make on your own findings.

I believe that the strategy in the UK was to wipe out Manufacturing to make way for other sectors. There are too many regulations and procedures for a UK manufacturer to compete with an overseas one in China for example. Although as you said a low productivity rate by workers contributed to the demise of UK manufacturing it was imo not the only reason or a big reason, workers acting like this is only caused by them excercising their "rights" and it is not a company fault.

As for the OP, sorry to hear that. They say when one door closes, another one opens so don't lose faith.

 

[Carzy]

Both. All our best selling products were sent to Italy and Poland to be made and the products we were left with aren't selling very well. Its bad management at the end of the day because with the other products we'd be a major force. Out of the nineteen factories they have around Europe we are the top performing hitting all our targets. Even now the workers have gone back to their jobs and carrying on as normal to the amazement of the management.

Ah, that's why dmpoole doesn't like the Polish then from what I remember haha. Definitely the fault of the Poles, definitely.

Sounds like a nice package, but remember only the first 30k is tax free. Anything over 30k is taxable at your normal rate. If you're a basic rate payer, the employer will sort it and pay you the net amount; if you're a higher rate payer the employer will pay the basic rate and you then have to declare it to HM's bods and pay the extra....

I doubt that's going to be a problem somehow lol.

 

[wassap]

I was in a similar situation a few years ago, a few years into working life , i was nearly made redundant, factory was shut down and moved tot he Czech republic.

They are cheaper than us, which basically means they are willing to work for less cash/benefits etc.That said, im not being facetious, but indesit arent exactly a quality brand, so you couldnt use that fact to charge more to justify the higher manufacturing costs.

And lets face it, patriotism doesnt exactly put money in my pocket, esp if its an inferior product (ie a rover car).

We should have changed our manufacturing process's in the late 70's/early 80's, when we had the Jap threat, we realised too late, and now we are paying for it.So now all the majority of this countries workforce is good for, is answering the phone.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

That said, im not being facetious, but indesit arent exactly a quality brand,

Thats an understatement.
Ever since the Italians came in 2002 we put an H after the S in Indesit.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Is this country any good at making anything... seems to me that we are outclassed in EVERY industry?

Aeroplane wings and Gas turbines.

Oh and a society of binge drinkers and Chavs.

 

[Morba]

I doubt that's going to be a problem somehow lol.

why is that? i know a few people who used to work nights on the chocolate lines for cardburys, after quite a few years there they were all above the 40% threshold.

 

[Tommy B]

and then the cost gets passed onto the buyer, of which people will find a cheaper product (a foreign owned and manufactured, imported into the uk). the company forced to charge more slowly goes out of business, forcing redundancies.

gg?

Yep, well they would never impose such a rule in the first place, but if they did there would be an embargo on foregin imports to prevent that from happening.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

I've had a floating day but a workmate has just rang me up to tell me when I'm finishing - Sept 14th

Everybody was putting bets on that I would be turning off the lights (going last) but it seems my bosses have decided I'm the first to go.
The reason why will be made clear tomorrow but I think I already know.
There are 5 of us in the Dept and they can fall into my job but I can't really fall into theirs.
The good point is that come Sept 14th I won't be watching the company slowly die from inside and I can walk off with the majority of my mates.
The bad point is that I was expecting another 3 months of wages and bonuses.

However, this morning I went for an interview at a local Borstal and even though its voluntary, it normally leads to a job if you prove yourself.
I could be knocking on an even closer door which does tick most of boxes for me but at the moment I fancy something different.

 

[NokkonWud]

To be honest I didn't actually know Indesit was British. Perhap they should mention this on their adverts now and then to improve sales...

That was my first though, I had no idea. I always thought they were foreign!

 

[feriso]

However, this morning I went for an interview at a local Borstal and even though its voluntary, it normally leads to a job if you prove yourself.
I could be knocking on an even closer door which does tick most of boxes for me but at the moment I fancy something different.

What happened about the offer from Spie?

edit: I actually saw you running home about fortnight ago - first time I've seen you do that since I've been looking (after you got stopped but the cops )

 

[SexyGreyFox]

That was my first though, I had no idea. I always thought they were foreign!

Don't you read posts
QABoy already told you that Indesit are Italian.

 

[NokkonWud]

lol, I guess I read the wrong ones!
I KNEW they were forgeign! HA!

 

[SexyGreyFox]

What happened about the offer from Spie?

That could be the door I'm knocking on.

For me it would be ticking virtually every box.
I could roll out of bed at 8:15 am and still walk to work.
I'd never have to worry about transport.
My whole day would be discussing/fixing/repairing/selling computers which is what I already do with workmates.

BUT

I feel I should explore another avenue before making a commitment to somebody else.
I may hate working with Young Offenders but I've got to try it.
Of course the voluntary work is in the evening and at weekends so it could still coincide with a day job.
At this moment my head is blagged and I can't think straight.

 

[jas72]

Not poor management, more the fact that most executives these days are tossers who will sacrafice everyone and everything for their own fiscal gain. The fact is labour in Poland will be cheaper, and it'll be another measure to cut costs and impress the shareholders. Perhaps one day the government will make it illegal and force firms to accept more expensive ways of doing things.



True, although we do have an impressive service industry.

That might be true about cheaper labour but do you know that less than 10% of a new car for instance is actually labour costs, a lot of it is mechanical. I'm sure the labour costs involved in dishwashers etc is an even lower percentage.

I read an interview with VW's CEO and the reasons for production going east was that most of the raw materials (steel, aluminium etc) were produced in Hungary and the cost of transporting it to Germany didn't make sense. This is something the workers can't compete with no matter how many targets they reach.

The UK as an island is in a worse state for manufacturing since coal and steel production is virtually gone. Even Germany with it's industrial coal and steel heartland is dying out.

Still sorry to hear about that mate.

We had a huge night out when I got my dundie great fun it was everyone celebrated. Gotta look on the bright side.

 

[Morba]

Yep, well they would never impose such a rule in the first place, but if they did there would be an embargo on foregin imports to prevent that from happening.

have you thought about what you said before typing it?

if they cannot drop prices and customers wont pay for them, the company will still go out of business.

 

[marl]

Sorry to hear your news. Good luck in finding a new job!

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Amazing.
Just had a knock on the door and theres a copper standing there
He happens to be an old 'student' I used to teach guitar and computers to about 18 years ago but he's unrecognisable.
He's come to reminisce because he's in the area and while my status in the street goes up we have a good talk.
I tell him what I did today at the Werrington Detention Centre and he's best friends with the second in command there
He said he will definitely mention my name to him tomorrow to keep a look out for me because when I start my voluntary I will go through him.