Overtime counting towards holidays

Pigeon_Killer said:
I do roughly 60-80 hours extra a month but I'm not entitled to overtime or time off, I do get to keep my job though. I assume this won't have any effect on me? :(
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No, it only effects you if you get paid for the overtime.

I take it you signed a form opting out of the maximum 47 working hours per week, as laid out in the European working time directive?
 
Joebob said:
No, it only effects you if you get paid for the overtime.

I take it you signed a form opting out of the maximum 47 working hours per week, as laid out in the European working time directive?
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Yep although it was included in my contract rather than as a separate document.

Urgent support work and out of hours work, which I'm happy to do, has now become me covering a shortfall of staff for day to day jobs.
 
Sorry I don't understand, it doesn't apply to those who do un-paid over time?

I work 35 hours a week and do voluntary paid out of hours on call work ~6 times a month, 7pm-7am. So roughly 72 hours a month extra even though its paid per shift.

Would this apply to me?
 
All this will do is stop employers giving out overtime. Personally I like doing the odd extra shift here and there if I feel like treating myself at the end of the month or if I'm saving up for something big. It's ridiculous to back date it considering it could mean job losses
 
Guest2 said:
Sorry I don't understand, it doesn't apply to those who do un-paid over time?

I work 35 hours a week and do voluntary paid out of hours on call work ~6 times a month, 7pm-7am. So roughly 72 hours a month extra even though its paid per shift.

Would this apply to me?
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I'm guessing that if you do unpaid overtime then you receive a salary rather than an hourly rate?

If that's the case then however many hours you work are included in your monthly salary, unless otherwise stated in your contact of employment.
 
We already pay weekly staff holiday pay based on average gross pay averaged quarterly so I'd guess we are fine with this new ruling. Can see a lot of other SMEs being ****ed by it though
 
Hmm this would definitely make things interesting - if it was backdated even 6 years my current employer would owe me nearly 15 grand - and probably go out of business paying out to a good number of staff.

EDIT: Even 3 months from last incorrect payment is a fair chunk - been doing full time hours + 15 hours a week overtime on a 18 hour part time contract.
 
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Combat squirrel said:
:confused: what fields are they ? slavery ? :confused:

It is SURELY against the law to do this!!
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Anything from software development, IT, management, accounting and finance, investment banking, law, architecture, academia, vets, engineering.

Not against the law at all. Within the EU You have to sign a contract opting out of a certain limit but that is typically made part of the work contract.

Really, the whole talk of overtime is fairly mute for many professions. You are hired to do a job and paid a salary accordingly. That job will often require more than 40hours a week.
 
D.P. said:
Anything from software development, IT, management, accounting and finance, investment banking, law, architecture, academia, vets, engineering.

Not against the law at all. Within the EU You have to sign a contract opting out of a certain limit but that is typically made part of the work contract.

Really, the whole talk of overtime is fairly mute for many professions. You are hired to do a job and paid a salary accordingly. That job will often require more than 40hours a week.
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I believe this is correct. I work in finance and signed a contract opting out of the working time directive just as many do. Normal contractual hours for our business are 37 1/2 hours a week but a few roles will near double that in reality.

But there are many professions and jobs where overtime is relevant.
 
I find that disgusting and abhorrently wrong.

So let me get this clear, employees, especially large corporations make their employees sign contracts that force them to work way past their agreed hours?

In affect MAKING them agree to serve their needs against any laws or time, not rewarding that effort, merely creating a culture that this is expected in some way? to force people into fear of do it or loose your job?

People on this forum appear to be replying in a nonchalant way, as if this is acceptable in some way ?! as if its the norm and just go along with it ?!!?!?!?

WHAT THE HELL PEOPLE, WAKE UP !!!! Christ!

YOU ARE NOT BENEFITING IN ANY WAY PROPORTIONAL TO YOUR EFFORTS.

Oh yay you my get promoted a couple of times, woop de doo, this is evolution at play here, your working your ass off to benefit another for no reasonable gain.............

Im in utter disbelief, I knew the world of corporation wasn't for me when entire groups of people were making face palm decisions and behaviors on a daily basis in the 2 large companies I used to work for...........I figured I got bad luck and working for myself was the way forward, I had so called íssues' with management a few times in both jobs...........for thinking for myself!, they didn't care for improvement just that everything done was always done the way it has always been done.........forward thinking and progression seemed frowned upon.

Seems this is a nationwide mindset..........horrific..................your not sheep or slaves people, don't just lay down and get it..................

Wow I am so shocked people just accept this enmase without question, has social conditioning really sunk into the mindsets of the nation so much ? A nation of slave labor and control ? The illusion of 'freedom'?

Russell is right - time for a revolution
 
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Its not acceptable but it does happen - you can if you want sign the contract, work long enough they can't easily dismiss you and opt in again and there is nothing they can do (other than try to get rid of you via other ways) but you'd then end up at the bottom of the pile for any promotion, etc. etc.

(For this reason there is a fairly big motion towards making it a mandatory limit but whether that will happen or not is another matter).
 
Those jobs often pay very high salaries. You may work hard but you are paid for it.

The equivalent hourly rate will still be very high.
 
I am happy with this in a way. Overtime these days is not so bad but the amount of overtime I used to do was a staggering 500-600 hours per year which had a huge effect on my family life as I had no time for nothing. Hopefully this means the company I work for will plan things a lot better than normal and get the staff in that is needed to reduce overtime. Instead of relying on the usual people to clean up the mess by doing the hours!
 
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adam cool dude said:
I am happy with this in a way. Overtime these days is not so bad but the amount of overtime I used to do was a staggering 500-600 hours per year which had a huge effect on my family life as I had no time for nothing. Hopefully this means the company I work for will plan things a lot better than normal and get the staff in that is needed to reduce overtime. Instead of relying on the usual people to clean up the mess by doing the hours!
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No one should be "forced" to do that kind of overtime too many companies treat their employees like trash though :S, I'm doing it now out of choice because it pays for things like the Asus PG278Q ROG Swift I just picked up.
 
peige said:
[..] Then ongoing what a ridiculous ruling, overtime is used to cope with the ebb and flow of pressure on work. Your just pushing employers to do away with it all together.
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But that's very often not true. At the lower end of the market it's not at all uncommon to employ people on a low or even zero hour contract and then assign them full time hours all the time. It means the employer can get more work from their peasants for less money, since they will be paid little or no holiday pay. It also removes any security the peasants might have, which makes them more malleable.

Basing holiday pay on the hours a person actually works isn't a ridiculous idea.
 
Combat squirrel said:
I find that disgusting and abhorrently wrong.

...

Russell is right - time for a revolution
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It isn't that simple.

My girlfriend is a teacher (which she is brilliant at by the way and i can't imagine her doing anything different), but when she first started her new job she was working reasonable hours worth some additional work in the evenings.

As time progressed though, this additional work had increased more and more to the point that she is working between 2 & 4 hours extra a night every night and then some at weekends. It wasn't a conscious decision to take a job with so much work, but it's where she finds herself now non the less.

Obviously she could leave, but it's not that easy. She specialises in special needs so there isn't anywhere close by to go and if there were, then who is to say things would be any better?

I have two cousins and a cousin in law who are also teachers and they tell me it's the same for them. So are you suggesting that they just give up on their chosen career paths and try to do something different? All four mentioned above are late thirties and have families, kids, mortgage etc. Not any easy choice to make!

PS> I'm listening to Revolution on audio book at the moment and, whilst he makes some good points, it's never going to happen!
 
Angilion said:
But that's very often not true. At the lower end of the market it's not at all uncommon to employ people on a low or even zero hour contract and then assign them full time hours all the time. It means the employer can get more work from their peasants for less money, since they will be paid little or no holiday pay. It also removes any security the peasants might have, which makes them more malleable.

Basing holiday pay on the hours a person actually works isn't a ridiculous idea.
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That's not true though, people on zero hour, irregular hours or on a casual basis are already covered by legislation to ensure they get the correct amount of Holiday Pay.

There seems to be some confusion about what compulsory overtime is, but someone on a zero hour contract who then works 30 hours in that week - that isn't 'overtime' it's just normal working hours and they will accrue the correct amount of holiday pay.

There was a good example earlier in the thread by Rogue of exactly the type of scenario this is aimed at

Rogue said:
I work for one of the companies that was involved in this case, and me and my colleagues have always thought it was unfair the way our holiday pay was calculated.

We were contracted to 38 hours a week at £9 an hour plus an hourly bonus at around £2, but worked a minimum of 50 hours a week Monday to Friday and around 65 with weekends. When our holiday pay was paid it was calculated on 38 hours without the £2 bonus.

Now I wouldnt expect to have my weekends calculated into my holiday pay, but don't think it's fair I don't get my bonus or the extra 12 hours calculated into it.
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