Parcelforce clearance fee - help!
- Thread starter apeZ
- Start date
This is quite complicated as there isn't one law that covers everything absolutely and I'm not a lawyer
a lot depends on the contract and what statutory rights apply to that type of contract i.e. you can have a contract where goods are delivered for approval to buy or return in which case the property remains that of the seller - even after delivery - until the buyer has signified acceptance. With general consumer contracts tho the point at which property ownership transfers is at the point of despatch. Its even more muddy when dealing with overseas sellers tho as they themselves aren't bound by UK law.The problem here is I could point you to various sections of the sales of goods act and so on and I might be completely correct on the face of it, but the actual outcome when tested in court may be completely different due to another consumer law that also applies.
Actually what I said was sort of wrong - as a courier you wouldn't be doing anything illegal yourself as you have no way of knowing what kind of contract exists between the other 2 parties, the sender would be the one acting illegally in asking for the item to be returned if they've changed their mind if the contract is the one that most commonly exists for most consumer transactions i.e. when OcUK is selling an item to a customer.
Man of Honour
The SOGA (or any similar acts) would regulate the contract between seller and buyer - if the seller or the buyer were to ask the courier to renege on the original agreement, thereby violating SOGA (or similar act) then this would result in a dispute between the seller and the buyer - not the courier.
In other words, as couriers we are only obliged to comply with the requests of the seller who has contracted us.
For mail it's slightly different, but not for the courier industry in the UK.
You are right about overseas being different again - INCOterms come into play for starters, which clearly outline the obligations of all parties.
EDIT
What Rroff just said above basically.
In other words, as couriers we are only obliged to comply with the requests of the seller who has contracted us.
For mail it's slightly different, but not for the courier industry in the UK.
You are right about overseas being different again - INCOterms come into play for starters, which clearly outline the obligations of all parties.
EDIT
What Rroff just said above basically.
Well in honestly I think it would be safe to say that couriers would have this well researched and are doing it all above board
More to the point almost no one will bother to challenge it let alone take it to court.
I'm fairly sure from my experience that if someone took it to court they would get a court order for the release of the item... tho it gets a bit tricky here as I'm also fairly sure if the courier have evidence of failure in recovering the debt that the courier could contest it and get a counter order to hold the goods until the debt is paid.
End of the day I could be talking complete rubbish as far as the letter of the law but I do have almost 6 years experience of how this actually plays out from the perspective of retail.
Postal Services Act 2000
Subsection (2) applies to—
(a)a postal packet,
(b)anything contained in a postal packet, and
(c)a mail-bag containing a postal packet,which is not the property of the Crown but which is in the course of transmission by post.
(2)Anything to which this subsection applies shall have the same immunity from—
(a)examination, or seizure or detention, under a relevant power conferred by virtue of this Act or any other enactment,
(b)seizure under distress or in execution,
(c)in Scotland, any diligence, and
(d)retention by virtue of a lien,
Now, don't get me wrong. Customs charges and duty are fine. But the parcelforce fee is a rip off, and from what I can see, illegal, but there must be some loophole they are using.
Associate
Lets face it lots of people are ordering from abroad because it appears to be cheaper when in fact they are seeing the price less taxes which they are trying to avoid paying or do not understand this part (which I doubt).
I got a call the other week and the guy on the phone was saying he wanted to buy something from my website, the conversation went something like this....
Him "Im looking at this item on your website but the price is a bit high"
Me "Sure what is it and I'll see what I can do"
Him "It this item at £130 I need it for £120"
Me "OK I'll do it for £120 + carriage"
Him "that's fine however I will only go ahead if you charge me the ex-vat price because I can order it from the USA for about £90+shipping without paying VAT"
Me "sorry I can't do that, I need to charge VAT"
Him "well I'm sorry I'll have to order it from the USA"
Me "OK sorry I can't help you"
I was really thinking GTFO and I coulden't get the guy off the phone quick enough.
We have had a few of these over the past year so I think (and hope for my own selfish reasons) that these transactions and getting more attention and will soon be a waste of the customers time.
I got a call the other week and the guy on the phone was saying he wanted to buy something from my website, the conversation went something like this....
Him "Im looking at this item on your website but the price is a bit high"
Me "Sure what is it and I'll see what I can do"
Him "It this item at £130 I need it for £120"
Me "OK I'll do it for £120 + carriage"
Him "that's fine however I will only go ahead if you charge me the ex-vat price because I can order it from the USA for about £90+shipping without paying VAT"
Me "sorry I can't do that, I need to charge VAT"
Him "well I'm sorry I'll have to order it from the USA"
Me "OK sorry I can't help you"
I was really thinking GTFO and I coulden't get the guy off the phone quick enough.
We have had a few of these over the past year so I think (and hope for my own selfish reasons) that these transactions and getting more attention and will soon be a waste of the customers time.
As per the end of my post above I probably should be clear I have no idea as to the exact letter of the law (hence my mistake on the liability of the courier)... but I do have quite a bit of experience of how it plays out in day to day dealings/conventional wisdom of the law from the perspective of retail.
I thought that if the import tax was below £9, then they didn't bother with it?
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...ntent&id=HMCE_CL_000014&propertyType=document
Go to 2.3
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...ntent&id=HMCE_CL_000014&propertyType=document
Go to 2.3
Soldato
People do not understand how VAT works. I have my own small business, and people ask me to buy them things, and say so I can get it cheaper without the VAT. You still have to pay the VAT man!
Doesn't the artificial increase in your input costs mean that you pay less VAT than you otherwise would have?
Man of Honour
It isn't relevant because Parcelforce, and all other UK couriers, are not regulated by the Postal act.
Plus the act you quote is out of date.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
This again? Seriously?
A courier is not covered by the Postal Services Act!
They dont need to use a loophole because it's perfectly legal, as has been explained MULTIPLE times in this thread before you decided to dispense your legal advice, wrongly.
So you dont think parcelforce incurs any costs? Honestly I would prefer it if they didn't bother with charge parcels and let people deal with them themselves.
Man of Honour
Now this I would love to see. No courier clearance operations, no deferment accounts with HMRC, just good old fashioned formal clearance for every single consignment
It doesn't even bear thinking about.
Hahaha i can guarantee our phones would be off the hook with people begging us to sort out their charge parcels. I would be like LOL :
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Associate
For future reference, these fees can be avoided
You can avoid 'handling fees' and custom clear your own goods. In order to do it just tell the sender to write on the customs form when posting 'goods to be Customs cleared by the importer'. You will be invoiced by HMRC directly and can cut out any handling fee. The disadvantage of course is that it may take slightly longer to get your hands on your package.
More info HERE
Problem solved.