Parking Fine.

[ubersonic]

ok, I'll narrow it down. Do you agree that private companies should be able to impose unregulated punitive "fines" well in excess of their actual contractual losses?

£30 is hardly an extortionate amount is it, and in regards to being in excess of the losses I'm fairly sure that one film snap on a Gatso doesn't cost £60 but the are administration costs involved and that's why fines sometimes seem extortionate, and lets be honest, the would never be an issue in the first place if people didn't park where they shouldn't.

This isn't a case of rip off companies trying to scam people, its a case of people doing the wrong thing and getting off scot free due to a technicality.

 

[estebanrey]

I got off an actual ticket once (council issued), so I wouldn't hesitate fighting an 'invoice' from some corporation for using their car park after the fact.

I was in a town centre and after driving round the shopping centre carpark for a while I thought I'd found a space so I drove in and went shopping. Came back to find a fine on my windscreen, turned out I had parked in the disabled area which unlike most carparks which use clearly marked out bays, this one just had one whole dedicated section that looks the same section and only tells you 'disabled only' when you drive into it (that's when the sign in question isn't obscured by a bush like it was on that day, hence why I hadn't seen it).

Anyhoo I waited for them to contact me which they inevitably did with a letter claiming I owed them £90, I responding telling them their signage was inadequate so they sent me a picture of their sign (which in the picture you could see as they'd obviously cut the hedges back) and on the sign in the picture it claimed the fine was actually £70, £20 less than they claimed I owed in the previous letter.

So I replied, saying I wasn't going to pay, retelling my story of the obscured sign and asking how they could charge me £90, saying it was clearly sign posted but then send me a picture of the sign that actually says £70......

....I never heard from them again.

 

[Haggisman]

So to confirm, if your ticket states it is issued by either:

A) Council
B) Traffic Warden
C) Police Officer

You must pay.
And this should be clearly stated on the ticket?
Otherwise through in bin.

Correct.

Ok next question. Does one have to respond to tickets put ON ones car at all even if by the above people? I'm talking about ones not received via post at all and the only correspondence is you having one stuck on your car? Would a legit ticket be placed like this ever?

Yes, and in fact they usually are.

Just thinking what if it ever falls off your car or gets nicked by someone or or or. What if you do not see it and it was a real one and then the price goes up? Would that even happen?

They are very sticky, so if attached properly shouldn't fall off unless you have super-teflon coated anti-stick windows. It's also an offence for anyone except the driver to remove them from the vehicle, so unlikely to get nicked.

£30 is hardly an extortionate amount is it, and in regards to being in excess of the losses I'm fairly sure that one film snap on a Gatso doesn't cost £60 but the are administration costs involved and that's why fines sometimes seem extortionate, and lets be honest, the would never be an issue in the first place if people didn't park where they shouldn't.

This isn't a case of rip off companies trying to scam people, its a case of people doing the wrong thing and getting off scot free due to a technicality.

Or the 3 examples I gave, of which none were my fault.

Like I previously posted. I have no issue with paying a fair amount for parking, but I refuse to pay a punitive amount for something I haven't done wrong.

£60 administration costs? Where are you getting that from.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Why are they allowed to operate/exist at all if in doing so it's actually "illegal" ?

It's not illegal, just unenforceable - learn the difference.

 

[mrk]

I received a final reminder from one place (not council issued) in January and if I didn't pay they would take me to court.....I laughed as I hurled that piece of paper as far as possible

 

[jaybee]

It's not illegal, just unenforceable - learn the difference.

Ok, I understand. But why are these companies allowed to exist? Why has a law not come about to stop them doing this OR why have consumers not been informed to not pay such fines? I mean people still clearly do pay them as these companies stay in business.

 

[Haggisman]

Ok, I understand. But why are these companies allowed to exist? Why has a law not come about to stop them doing this OR why have consumers not been informed to not pay such fines? I mean people still clearly do pay them as these companies stay in business.

For the same reason as companies like Monster Cables and Denon.

They exist to part fools from their money.

They're welcome to charge what they want for their "services", the difference being, while the previously mentioned companies make their prices very obvious, and it's difficult to "accidentally" buy a platinum coated, triple distilled, made from unicorn tears £600 HDMI cable, it's a lot easier to inadvertently overstay in a carpark for 5 minutes and become the victim of an overzealous parking attendant, this coupled with the fact that they often make their signage deliberately unclear in the hope to catch people out.

 

[Nexus]

If you do that - i.e. park every day - then you run the risk of the company who runs the car park escalating the situation - i.e. clamping your car or towing it. It's all very well saying throw the "fine" in the bin (which I've done and will do again) but you're a bit stuck if you're clamped or towed - you can't really ignore that can you?

Also, I'd be a bit wary of some of the "attendants" taking matters into thier own hands and damaging your car out of spite one day when they realise you're just ignoring the "fines".

I assumed that would likely be the case.
I had thought there might be some rebuttal to the fact that they used clamps though. Again I don't condone dodgy clampers, but if they are trying to protect their business on a private car park, then I don't see an issue with it.

The other thing I'd add is that by all means rip up the ticket, but if it's a Car Park you have to use regularly, surely you are putting yourself at a risk of being clamped if the attendants remember your car, perhaps if they use a register of unpaid fines.

 

[Haggisman]

The other thing I'd add is that by all means rip up the ticket, but if it's a Car Park you have to use regularly, surely you are putting yourself at a risk of being clamped if the attendants remember your car, perhaps if they use a register of unpaid fines.

AFAIK they aren't allowed to punish you for prior offences. So if you don't pay a fine one day, but then park there and pay the next, they can't then clamp you for the previous fine, only if the breach of contract is actually occurring.

 

[ubersonic]

Like I previously posted. I have no issue with paying a fair amount for parking, but I refuse to pay a punitive amount for something I haven't done wrong.

The £30 isn't the fine for what you have done wrong, its the total bill for what you did wrong + tracking you down (I assume they have to pay to get your details) + posting you the bill + any other administration.

£60 administration costs? Where are you getting that from.

£60 (plus 3 points) is what you usually get for a speeding FPN but it doesn't cost £60 for the Gatso to take the picture, that cost includes the administration work involved.

Ok, I understand. But why are these companies allowed to exist? Why has a law not come about to stop them doing this OR why have consumers not been informed to not pay such fines? I mean people still clearly do pay them as these companies stay in business.

Because their not the ones in the wrong!

 

[Nexus]

AFAIK they aren't allowed to punish you for prior offences. So if you don't pay a fine one day, but then park there and pay the next, they can't then clamp you for the previous fine, only if the breach of contract is actually occurring.

I see.

At what point though do they decide enough with the ticketing and clamp you, if you keep overstaying?

 

[estebanrey]

Because their not the ones in the wrong!

'Their' [sic] not in the right either.

 

[djkav]

I think for clampers to operate legally, they need to have a valid SIA Licence. It also needs to be on them at the time, and also has to be shown on request. Failure, and they can't clamp you. You can call the police and tell them your being illegally clamped.
http://www.get-licensed.co.uk/wheel
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2009/02/citywatch_clamping.html

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Why has a law not come about to stop them doing this

Because it'snot illegal! How many times does it have to be said?

OR why have consumers not been informed to not pay such fines

They have - see the watchdog clip.

I mean people still clearly do pay them as these companies stay in business.

People are stupid. That's how businesses that make air ionisers etc and homeopaths etc stay in business.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

AFAIK they aren't allowed to punish you for prior offences. So if you don't pay a fine one day, but then park there and pay the next, they can't then clamp you for the previous fine, only if the breach of contract is actually occurring.

It's not a fine, it's a charge

 

[Deleted member 66701]

£60 (plus 3 points) is what you usually get for a speeding FPN but it doesn't cost £60 for the Gatso to take the picture, that cost includes the administration work involved.

It's £60 because it's a fine - not a charge. It could be a fine of £1000 - admin charges bear no relevance in the case of fines.

People need to learn the difference between a fine and a charge.

I see.

At what point though do they decide enough with the ticketing and clamp you, if you keep overstaying?

That's anyones guess.

 

[estebanrey]

Did you know the laws that permit clamping derive from medieval laws that allowed a man to tie up another man's sheep should it wander into his field.

 

[~Divine~Wind~]

Bite the bullet and pay the fine.
If you don't the fine will only get bigger over time as TCP are not cowboys when it comes to carparks.
Pay it & move on.
I got a £600 fine for driving with no TAX on the way to TAX the car as I could not do it online or at my home town post office as it needed to be re classed.
When I got the fine in the post the time that I was seen was 10 mins before I TAXed the car but I did not have a leg to stand on as I was driving with no TAX at the time.
I was mad but that's life.

Fine for tax and the fine the OP has received are completely different no?

Bin it OP

 

[Cosimo]

I received a final reminder from one place (not council issued) in January and if I didn't pay they would take me to court.....I laughed as I hurled that piece of paper as far as possible

Out of interest, which company sent you that?

 

[Bear]

If it was a fact you'd have proof rather than just "a friend of a friends brother etc" hearsay

I work in Edinburgh away from home and my brother works in Belfast away from home. He does have proof but it is at home and to be honest I dont care enough to have to wait for him to email it to me and then post it on a forum to satisfy some clueless **** on a forum. I just took exception to someone who obviously doesnt know what he talking about giving out **** information.

Get yourself a ticket, implicate yourself and then see if you appear in court.