Paying a garage to fix a problem and having the problem come back

Muffin`

Muffin`

Muffin`

Caporegime
Joined
21 Apr 2004
Posts
33,225
Location
Bristol
I got my B18C engine rebuilt at the end of 2011/start of 2012 as it was smoking like something out of Wacky Races. The garage is well known for knowing their way around the B series engine. They seemed to identify exactly what the issue was and I had the same conclusions after scowering the web for a while. With nothing but positive recommendations I went with it. (I also got the suspension refreshed with them but that was labour only and not in the engine work calculation).

Work carried out:

Remove engine and gearbox
Strip engine block and cylinder head assemblies. Hot tank components to clean thoroughly.
Block sent to engineering works (see below*)

Install oversized pistons to conrods
Rebuild engine block with new bearings, pistons, rings and new gaskets and seals
Rebuild cylinder head with new gaskets and seals
New camblet, tensioner, water pump and aux belts

Install customer supplies clutch and fly
Renew engine oil, filter, coolant and gearbox oil
install customer supplied mugen airbox
road test -ok

*Engineering work
Re-bore and fine hone cylinders
Reface block deck -005"
Polish crank journals
Renew valve guides and ream
Re-cut valves and valve seats
Re-face cylinder head -003"


I paid the 4k bill for the engine and I got my car back and followed the run in procedure:

500 miles staying below 5k

1500 miles and change to fully synthetic

3000 miles take it in for valve clearance check/adjustment

I didn't reach 3000 miles, I was at 2800 miles and I notice a slight leak from the sump. They offered to fix it FOC but I decided to get the sump baffled at the same time as it saves labour and if it see's a track then I know I'm a bit safer.

Now it's at just over 3k since the rebuild and it's doing the same as before. Smoke in VTEC crossover and higher up the rev range in WOT which is oil getting in with the fuel. Oil on lift off which is the VSS (Valve stem seals) seeping in oil.

The garage has been perfectly accommodating before and I've no gripes with it but I'm making this long winded thread to ask where would I stand if there's an inkling from them that there's nothing more left for the garage to do? I will be speaking to them tomorrow but I'd rather ask here so I know I'm clear in what I can expect. I'd fully expect for them to take it back off me and fix it again whilst paying my travel costs to and from thier garage because they're in the middle of no where. But that might be a bit much. And I'll have to use the ****ing bus, WHY did I sell my Mondeo?!

So, anyone with any experience with something similar? Or any advice? (I won't be kicking off on the phone, I know that gets me no where. )


I've specifically NOT mentioned said garage and I'd appreciate if it wasn't brought up, at this point is has no bearing and I don't want this popping up in a Google search when the garage hasn't done anything wrong.
 
My take.

They should sort out the engine for sure FOC. Travel costs etc are unlikely, they might offer you the use of a courtesy car if they have one but expect you to pay any insurance cover.

Gutted to hear its gone wrong, and just... wow at £4k to rebuild it. It should be perfect at that sort of price.
 
You took the car to them, as experts, for advice on dealing with a smoking engine.

They offered you a solution to rectify this problem and you accepted this solution and paid them a considerable sum to carry out the work.

It is therefore fair and reasonable to expect the car to be free from the original issue for a reasonable period of time - of which 3000 miles absolutely isn't'. I see no angle to which this isn't the garages fault/responsibility to rectify.

The expenses issue is a can of worms. Under SOGA you are not entitled to anything. You might be if the garage is considered negligent but you'd need to sue them and have a court rule in your favour to see any chance of expenses if they refuse to offer them.

Out of pure good practice I'd expect them to offer you the use of a car whilst they fix the problem.
 
I think fox, as ever, has put what I have said far more eloquently than I did ;)

£4000 is a lot of money on an engine rebuild in my mind, regardless of the clutch work. I’d personally expect this if you’d paid £200 quid for ‘dave’ to do it for you, but not a decent garage paying top price.

It is clearly not reasonable that the issue has come so quickly. I’d be speaking to them if it had happened at 10,000 miles, let alone just over 3000.
 
OK great cheers for that Fox, I was wondering how transport would be covered but I won't mention it for the sake of keeping things calm.

Lol Conanius, it's a lot of money for a 20% tax payer like myself but I've seen some rebuild prices on TVR's and 996's, good lord I'm glad mines an economical Jap box :D
 
I'd mention it if things are going well. They dont need to hire you a new Golf diesel but I'm sure they've got something they can loan you.
 
They rebuilt it and charged you 4k to rectify the original fault.

You're more than within your rights to say 'Sort it FOC'!

Seems most odd that it should be burning oil again though, have you spoke to them yet?
 
No Ive not spoken to them yet, I just wanted to be confident that I know I'm coming from the right POV when I do speak to them tomorrow.

Indeed it's a DC2
 
Seems reasonable enough to expect to get it fixed for free, alas tuners don't always seem to 'work' like normal garages :(

Was the intention of the rebuild to leave you with a stronger engine for further tuning later, as well as fix the smoking issue? If not it just seems an expensive way of doing things rather than sourcing a second hand engine, though I admit there's a certain attraction to having a 'new' engine and it seems like your intention is to have a car as good as it was when it left the factory. All the more frustrating to hear of the problems :(
 
It's a proper garage and a tuner he's done this for quite a lot of people. The agreement was to keep the engine standard. I wasn't up for chasing BHP as the car's fine as it is imo.

There was the possibility of getting a used engine for about £1200-£1400 but you may end up at square one again as the B series are getting old and the tolerances are tight, there were also other garages offering £1000 to fix the issue but (the garage I got the work done said) that's just covering up the symptoms, the oval shaped bores will still be there to come back 10k later.
 
I was trying to work out how you spent 4K on a rebuild of a B-Series, but then I was expecting the BMC version, not the Honda version. Mind you, imagine a Morris Marina and the win in that.....I mean lose.
 
I think they do have a loan car, something was metioned when I was down there. I could be wrong though.

I can't offer anything but wishing you good luck in getting it sorted. They do know what they're doing so can hopefully get it sorted, unless there is something wrong with the block itself that may not have been visible or has happened since the rebuild.

Fingers crossed buddy!
 
Muffin` said:
He want's to look at it first, could just be a ring not seated right - no charging mentioned
Click to expand...

The rings could be sticking but that seems very unlikely with new rings and pistons fitted (assuming they did fit them of course...). Provided the boring and honing were performed correctly, I can't see why there should be any problems with the rings - certainly nothing that could be construed as "not seated right".

I wonder if they checked the obvious; a blocked crankcase breather will cause the engine to burn oil, and for gaskets (e.g. sump gasket...) to start leaking. Of course if that was the problem in the first place you could be 4k poorer for nothing.

What sort of mileage has the engine got on it? A friend has two B16 engined Civics, both with over 130k. One is a stage rally car, the other is his road car but also used for road rallies so both lead a very hard life and neither of them burn oil. My B18 Civic had 150k on it, and just burnt a little oil, maybe 3000-4000 miles per litre.
 
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I don't think it's a blocked crankcase breather, I've been all over that when I first noticed an issue

There's a few guys on the DC2 forum who've had the job done for about 4k and the problems come back and a few of those are the blocks not being in spec or shoddy parts. I don't think it'll be shoddy parts with this garages history but the work on the block isn't done by them, so it could be that.

The clock says 144k, but of what that is miles and what is kilometres
 
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