Paying a garage to fix a problem and having the problem come back

Muffin`

Muffin`

Muffin`

Caporegime
Joined
21 Apr 2004
Posts
33,225
Location
Bristol
I got my B18C engine rebuilt at the end of 2011/start of 2012 as it was smoking like something out of Wacky Races. The garage is well known for knowing their way around the B series engine. They seemed to identify exactly what the issue was and I had the same conclusions after scowering the web for a while. With nothing but positive recommendations I went with it. (I also got the suspension refreshed with them but that was labour only and not in the engine work calculation).

Work carried out:

Remove engine and gearbox
Strip engine block and cylinder head assemblies. Hot tank components to clean thoroughly.
Block sent to engineering works (see below*)

Install oversized pistons to conrods
Rebuild engine block with new bearings, pistons, rings and new gaskets and seals
Rebuild cylinder head with new gaskets and seals
New camblet, tensioner, water pump and aux belts

Install customer supplies clutch and fly
Renew engine oil, filter, coolant and gearbox oil
install customer supplied mugen airbox
road test -ok

*Engineering work
Re-bore and fine hone cylinders
Reface block deck -005"
Polish crank journals
Renew valve guides and ream
Re-cut valves and valve seats
Re-face cylinder head -003"


I paid the 4k bill for the engine and I got my car back and followed the run in procedure:

500 miles staying below 5k

1500 miles and change to fully synthetic

3000 miles take it in for valve clearance check/adjustment

I didn't reach 3000 miles, I was at 2800 miles and I notice a slight leak from the sump. They offered to fix it FOC but I decided to get the sump baffled at the same time as it saves labour and if it see's a track then I know I'm a bit safer.

Now it's at just over 3k since the rebuild and it's doing the same as before. Smoke in VTEC crossover and higher up the rev range in WOT which is oil getting in with the fuel. Oil on lift off which is the VSS (Valve stem seals) seeping in oil.

The garage has been perfectly accommodating before and I've no gripes with it but I'm making this long winded thread to ask where would I stand if there's an inkling from them that there's nothing more left for the garage to do? I will be speaking to them tomorrow but I'd rather ask here so I know I'm clear in what I can expect. I'd fully expect for them to take it back off me and fix it again whilst paying my travel costs to and from thier garage because they're in the middle of no where. But that might be a bit much. And I'll have to use the ****ing bus, WHY did I sell my Mondeo?!

So, anyone with any experience with something similar? Or any advice? (I won't be kicking off on the phone, I know that gets me no where. )


I've specifically NOT mentioned said garage and I'd appreciate if it wasn't brought up, at this point is has no bearing and I don't want this popping up in a Google search when the garage hasn't done anything wrong.
 
OK great cheers for that Fox, I was wondering how transport would be covered but I won't mention it for the sake of keeping things calm.

Lol Conanius, it's a lot of money for a 20% tax payer like myself but I've seen some rebuild prices on TVR's and 996's, good lord I'm glad mines an economical Jap box :D
 
No Ive not spoken to them yet, I just wanted to be confident that I know I'm coming from the right POV when I do speak to them tomorrow.

Indeed it's a DC2
 
It's a proper garage and a tuner he's done this for quite a lot of people. The agreement was to keep the engine standard. I wasn't up for chasing BHP as the car's fine as it is imo.

There was the possibility of getting a used engine for about £1200-£1400 but you may end up at square one again as the B series are getting old and the tolerances are tight, there were also other garages offering £1000 to fix the issue but (the garage I got the work done said) that's just covering up the symptoms, the oval shaped bores will still be there to come back 10k later.
 
I don't think it's a blocked crankcase breather, I've been all over that when I first noticed an issue

There's a few guys on the DC2 forum who've had the job done for about 4k and the problems come back and a few of those are the blocks not being in spec or shoddy parts. I don't think it'll be shoddy parts with this garages history but the work on the block isn't done by them, so it could be that.

The clock says 144k, but of what that is miles and what is kilometres
 
Well, I picked the car up today, just over a month after I dropped it off. The oversized parts (because of the rebore) were on backorder when the car went in so that's why it's taken so long, which I accepted was out of anybody's control

Set off from my house at the crack of dawn to get to Temple Meads for the 7:30 train to Swindon. As ever the local buses were keeping their own timetable (not the ones on the bus stop/website) so I missed my train, awesome. My pre-booked taxi was understanding about the delay, but when I get there he phoned to say he running late due to another job. So I had to hang about outside Swindon station where there was a gas leak (lol), there were people wondering about saying don't use electric devices or smoke, so I had a bit of a headache by the time the taxi showed up.

So I get to the garage, previously agreed over the phone that it's FOC so I get the keys back and I walk back to my car and get in. I look down and thought:

"That's not good I'm gonna have to listen to a droney engine on the way back."

wait...

"**** sake my stereo's gone!"

So I walk back in and say "Stereo's not there lol, did you take it out for any reason?"

He hadn't and didn't realise it was gone/had one. So I wasn't best pleased. I said I'd phone on Monday as he's got another guy who works with him who might know but it's pretty obvious to me that it's been left unlocked and an opportunist has had away with it. Funnily enough the locking key(s) for the car are kept in an old fascia case for a car stereo to keep them together and that was now gone but the nice thief had left the locking keys in the door pocket for me (lived in the glove box before). Taking it out is not a quick job due to the iPod cable that runs down the back and out the ashtray area.

So I'm left in a dilemma, do I chase it?

- He has a duty of care when the car is in his ownership
- It's leaving me out of pocket if I don't (£150)

If he's hesitant that there never was one then it could get nasty and I go to court over the sake of £150 then I run the risk of ****ing him off. That's a problem if any more problems come back relating the rebuild and I have to take it back!

So I set off on my way home as I wanted to get back for F1 qualifying. I have another issue, my MOT expired while I was in the garage so I'm MOT'less (I know I know). My car is perfectly fine it's in tip-top condition just no ticket. So the only thing I was worried about was a FPN, so I wanted to avoid any Police cars. I set off on my way home and get onto the M4 and there's a traffic car with its lights on the hard shoulder! ********! So I nip into the third lane and stay with the flow. Phew. Then I realise there's Jap cars everywhere as of course it's Jap Fest today. So I figured of all the days a white DC2 will blend in with the traffic, it's today (how can I lose?).

Well I get towards Castle Comb and I catch the rev needle doing a little dance for me. And then the car starts to hesitate within 30 seconds the cars dying, so I pull onto the hard shoulder and it stalls as I slow down. ****.

So I phone up the garage and I'm like 'It's died on the M4 lol' and I explain what happened. It was unbelievably loud on the motorway thanks to the rice rockets shooting past. All I heard was 'Thermostat' and 'Loose'. So I start hunting for something loose but I couldn't find it. Phone up a mate and ask if he has break down, he does, start to make arrangements for a tow truck with him turning up (as it's for him not a car). So I'm stood on the side of the road with my bonnet up, clearly the centre of attention for other jap drivers with people giving me thumbs up and a smile :rolleyes: :(

Called the garage back to see about getting it towed back there for diagnosis and I go into the bushes to hear him better and he shouted some more and I hear 'Bolt' and 'Gearbox'. So I go back again to look again, bingo, loose earthing wire held in with a bolt at the top of the gearbox (there was an oil leak again after I had taken it for an oil leak a few weeks ago and he'd fixed the sump gasket so he said it must have been a seal with the gearbox and he fixed it FOC so it was an oversight during reassembly, easily done). Tighten it up and it was fine. Home time!

So yeah. tl;dr - I'm home (at last) and I've got to get an MOT and a new stereo.

Sometimes I'm think this car is just a bad omen or I'm the unluckiest mother ****er ever born.

:)
 
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Housey said:
To me it sounds like you have an amateur outfit working on your car, who seem to come from the school of hap, hazard and slap dash. Bill them for the radio and take it somewhere else next time. Not gone through the thread in detail but cutting to the chase its seems they have a history of half a job and if a jobs worth doing it's worth doing twice.
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I think you're right. The bloke does come highly recommended on the owners club, people on here have used him with nothing but praise for the knowledge and service. If I chase the radio then I think I'd lose all after sales unless I start to write recorded letters. If it's a problem with the rebuild I have to spend money as opposed to FOC then it's not as desirable. The next closest specialist is Hampshire iirc, quite a drive!
 
I can see where people are coming from here and everyone has the best intention, but the garage is the equivalent of what Lepson's is to Alloys. There's no reason not to use them if you're in the South West and need some specialist work on a Honda. But I think it's right that I just find somewhere else, I don't have a negative thing to say about the place, just I had higher expectations in certain areas.


Noxia said:
Were you heading to Japfest? They totally messed up the traffic control and loads of people got turned away. Glad I decided not to go this year.
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Same, the weathers nice but 4 hours in a que, no thanks!
 
Acolyte said:
Did you break the rings in properly? Although its fine as they state, to keep the car under 5k for the first 500 miles, but you need large cylinder loads to create the best cylinder seal within the first 100 miles or so. If this isnt done you can often end up with a smokey oil burning engine.
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What's large cylinder loads? Isn't bedding in a bit like economics? I.e. there's 'right' answer because it's different for types of engines?
 
Kenai said:
You're either the most forgiving man since Ghandi or you have low standards then, if this catalogue of errors leaves you with not a single negative comment about them
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By negativity I mean for things that really matter. I personally can't fault the work its self, having the parts not take can happen every now and again and it's all been sorted FOC. Suspension work is fine, not had an issue the car feels amazing. The seals were just a faff and part of the package of such an old car, I guess it could be said they should have just been changed but that's the benefit of hindsight, Shirley?

My only gripe was the lack of communication, when the rebuild was going on I was updated a fair bit by PM on the forum, which was great. But ever since then it's been a bit weak I must say. Other people have said the same, I think he can improve there by perhaps employing someone on a temp basis purely with the task of keeping people updated on the progress of work or getting back on enquiries.

Also not having a coutesey car, yes I realize he's not a dealership and things are tight at the moment with people not spending but he's in such a bizarre location actually getting to him is a pain, along with the standard working hours.

This is stuff that would be nice but as we all know I don't have high expectations of people :p


He said I could buy some JDM beans off him too but I need to consult Ad first.
 
Dogbreath said:
Because all good garages leave cars unattended and unlocked so the head unit can be stolen.

All good garages leave important earthing cables loose causing people to break down on motorways.

As for "Looks like the ring has not taken on #3", I'd love to hear a little more about this, It sounds like they either installed it incorrectly or broke it during installation. Rings don't just randomly not "take" (whatever that's supposed to mean).

In their favour they seem to have performed the rectification work without giving the OP too much hassle, but it's should have been needed in the first place and now he is missing a HU.
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The ring(s) hadn't bedded properly (on just #3) and causes it to glaze over and caused the oil bypass. That's what I was told, I have no reason not to take his word on it

Waiting for a call back from the other bloke about the stereo
 
Just spoken to the place, he's agreed straight away to a replacement unit :)


TaKeN said:
Give it a harder break in this time muffin. Lots of engine loads, but not too many,

Stick it in a higher gear every now and then and properly load it up to make it 'work', and chase that stereo!
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So give it a bit of Jekyll and Hyde? :p


fonzee said:
jeez talk about bad luck!

havn't read it all but id be quite surprised he didnt sort you out a replacement or help you towards one?

time and time again i've read about issues on B series engine rebuilds. just not worth the risk.
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Only when people do it on the cheap, only seen one issue when someone spent the full amount and had the oil burning stay and the garage (somewhere up north) just bought a new block for him. Few guys on the forum said oil usage is now non-existent even after a day on track, the engine certainly feels fantastic and I'd like to get someone with 80+k on to try mine and see if they concur.
 
-Ad- said:
Even the supposed experts get it wrong. A number of stories started emerging about another reputable engine rebuilder further up North.

There's only one place I'd take mine too, but I would never want to waste that much money on a B18 or Integra. It's still only a cheap old Teg and not worth it unless Racing/HillClimbing.
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Well when the cost of fixing it is the cost of a replacement then you're in a grey area, better the devil you know. Getting a used engine for £1200 may leave you in the same boat 10k miles later.
 
You can still buy all the parts for a full engine straight from Honda, prices are of course pre-loaded with Jap Tax which makes the rebuild a cheaper option. The oversized parts are OEM Honda too
 
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