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PCGH asks Nvidia on Gameworks

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PCGH: On a DX11-PC, does a Gameworks module always use the same code path regardless of what hardware is inside?

Rev Lebaredian (Nvidia): Many GameWorks modules have both CPU and GPU paths. If the module is using the CPU path, there's obviously only one codepath, regardless of the hardware. Most of our GPU compute paths in the past have been written in CUDA, which is only available on NVIDIA. For non-NVIDIA hardware, the CPU path is available. In the cases where we have non-CUDA implementations of a GPU path, we don't have different vendor-specific paths, but game developers with a source license are free to modify our GameWorks code.

PCGH: Can developers look at the code of the Gameworks modules, making suggestions to improve the way certain things are handled, for example interaction with their respective engine?

Rev Lebaredian (Nvidia): Absolutely! We offer source licensing for GameWorks modules, and do not impose restrictions on what a developer can do with the source. Also, we often take their suggestions and integrate it back into our code, so they don't have to branch too far from our code base, and can take advantage of future updates.

PCGH: How do you protect your IP in the Gameworks modules? Are the binaries encrypted or something like that, or do you rely on license agreements with the game developers?

Rev Lebaredian (Nvidia): Binary versions of our modules don't have any special encryption. The source code licensing has standard protections you would expect about sharing IP (e.g. not putting source code out into the public), but nothing out of the industry norms.

PCGH: There are accusations, you would deny developers the possibility to have your competitor AMD look at the code and suggest improvements. How do you respond to that?

Rev Lebaredian (Nvidia): These are very strange accusations. If we're talking about specific GameWorks source code, then yes, there are restrictions to sharing our source code with those that don't have a source code license (e.g. competitors). However, this is not only standard practice, but reasonable. None of our competitors share source code of their IP with us or any other competitor before the game is released.

The vast majority of work we do on games is done without any access to any source code (game code or other). Despite that, our customers regularly enjoy drastic performance and quality improvements with new GeForce driver releases.

I'd also like to point out that we have never imposed any restrictions on developers in regards to sharing pre-release builds of their game with our competitors. I can't say the same is always true on the other side.

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Nvidi...-Stellung-und-verteidigt-Gameworks-1126574/2/

Now let's see how many of the people saying that Nvidia was/is guilty until proven innocent still say the same thing when Nvidia puts out baseless accusations saying that AMD does something.

Personally I think both should shut up or put up. Proof or go home with stupid spin doctors.
 
There is nothing new in there and this thread will only end the same as the last few.

It was only published yesterday!!!

We have to have a gazillion threads with GW updates from different people bad mouthing it so this is no different.

Thanks for sharing, Alatar.
 
It was only published yesterday!!!

We have to have a gazillion threads with GW updates from different people bad mouthing it so this is no different.

Thanks for sharing, Alatar.

What i meant is they are saying nothing new. The article may be new but the content and what's been discussed on here is not new.
 
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I'd also like to point out that we have never imposed any restrictions on developers in regards to sharing pre-release builds of their game with our competitors. I can't say the same is always true on the other side.

Now let's see how many of the people saying that Nvidia was/is guilty until proven innocent still say the same thing when Nvidia puts out baseless accusations saying that AMD does something.

Nvidia have actually made this claim before when the Watchdogs/Gameworks hate first kicked off:

Cebenoyan went on to tell me that, in "at least" two instances, AMD's own developer relations efforts impeded Nvidia's work with game developers. "We know of real examples where we have actually explicitly been forbidden from seeing builds—forget source code, even just binary builds—of games that include high-end effects," Cebenoyan said. "The full game with all of the effects, the important PC ultra quality settings, [was] hidden from us until say a few weeks before launch, something like that. These were things that were contractually obligated.
 
It's just further confirmation of what is already known, whether people choose to accept is another matter....

NVidia go through to a lot of effort to optimise games even when they do not have access to the the source code, they take personal responsiblity for how a game runs on their hardware without complaining if/when things fall short.

AMD prefer to complain constantly because they have an ideology of developers doing all of the work instead of them which has no real basis in reality (developers don't give a **** about PC) and whenever performance is less than the competition they never fail to accuse NVidia of underhanded tactics.
 
It's just further confirmation of what is already known, whether people choose to accept is another matter....

NVidia go through to a lot of effort to optimise games even when they do not have access to the the source code, they take personal responsiblity for how a game runs on their hardware without complaining if/when things fall short.

AMD prefer to complain constantly because they have an ideology of developers doing all of the work instead of them which has no real basis in reality (developers don't give a **** about PC) and whenever performance is less than the competition they never fail to accuse NVidia of underhanded tactics.

Complete twaddle again, you can say it as often as you like but it's still not true.

AMD, without access to source code released an optimised driver before the launch of Watchdogs, this is their own work improving performance. YOu keep claiming they want to leave everything up to dev's and ignore that they work with far MORE dev's than Nvidia and for longer. Again I'll bring up the Stalker example, under TWIMTBP Stalker was a buggy pile of crap, Nvidia were happy with that and offered no support to the point where they asked AMD for help, who offered support adding DX10 or 11 to the game, fixing many of the bugs and getting it running better.

You keep stating this crap that is absolutely, categorically not true that AMD don't bother working with dev's.

It's also been stated for basically a decade on multiple titles that Nvidia has dev's keep AMD out of development of TWIMTBP titles, now when AMD does the same thing since their game development platform was increased drastically 3-4 years ago, nvidia pretends it's never done it, enough time has passed to throw that accusation out there like Nvidia don't do it.

AMD's game developer program encompasses more games than TWIMTBP now, more devs say they hate working with Nvidia and find AMD helpful. AMD released source code of TressFX for anyone including Nvidia to use, while Nvidia claim they protect theirs like "everyone else does", even though we know this isn't true. There is no proof, absolutely no hint that AMD's philosophy is to let game dev's "do all the work". Their philosophy is to help game dev's do what the game dev's want. Not push their own idea's on to game devs. They make TressFX and let whoever wants to use it, use it, they work to improve it, make the performance better and game devs are free to adapt it or use it in any way they like. Nvidia pays a company to use their version, they way they want. They can get help only if they are doing something that promotes Nvidia.

He failed to mention that they offer source licensing, which they only announced AFTER accusations about hiding the source code from dev's, they also refused to say how much it cost and didn't offer a source code licence as a default option before they were accused. nvidia could be offering Gameswork licensing for 100k without source code and 50million with source code.... just because they offer the option doesn't mean it's a realistic option for any devs to utilise while Nvidia can claim it's an option, while refusing to say how much it costs.


Again I'd ask Nvidia guys to explain how Nvidia, with a paid for title in Watchdogs, with a company they partner with, who have been involved all along.... do nothing to prevent their partner who they pay from releasing dumbed down (graphically) versions of Watchdogs, Division... everything else they do.

Well done Nvidia, your work seeing these graphics options throughout development and doing nothing when Ubisoft turn them all off, brilliant. Also all that work with the dev's "helping" Ubisoft... helping them launch a game not ready with huge stuttering problems for AMD and Nvidia users. Thank god they had Nvidia's help otherwise Watchdogs would just be a joke. ......

Funny that Nvidia's biggest (only really) game partner, Ubisoft, is now easily the worst big game dev in PC< actively sabotaging PC games, releasing games that run like utter ****. Fantastic advert for how helpful and involved Nvidia is with game devs isn't it.
 
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I have actually seen Nvidia sabotaging AMD performance first hand!

A 7900GTO fell off a shelf and destroyed the HD7850 it landed on (ironically the 7900GTO still worked, I guess they made it out of Nokia).
 
It's just further confirmation of what is already known, whether people choose to accept is another matter....

NVidia go through to a lot of effort to optimise games even when they do not have access to the the source code, they take personal responsiblity for how a game runs on their hardware without complaining if/when things fall short.

AMD prefer to complain constantly because they have an ideology of developers doing all of the work instead of them which has no real basis in reality (developers don't give a **** about PC) and whenever performance is less than the competition they never fail to accuse NVidia of underhanded tactics.
You forgot to put IMO or "In my opinion" :p

People need to learn to separate their opinions from facts :D
 
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Crysis 2 was probably the best example of shall we say "dodgy dealings" in a game? Flat concrete barriers with tons of tessellation applied to them for no reason, they looked no different with it turned on or off, then the water that was beneath the surface always being rendered in the background.
 
Again I'd ask Nvidia guys to explain how Nvidia, with a paid for title in Watchdogs, with a company they partner with, who have been involved all along.... do nothing to prevent their partner who they pay from releasing dumbed down (graphically) versions of Watchdogs, Division... everything else they do.

I can actually explain that, it's their job to support the developer in making what they want to make as well as possible, if what the developer wants to make is a 7-foot 500 pound steaming stinking pile of Grade A Monkey Crap then it's not Nvidia's job to stop them.

With modular libraries like GW it makes it easier to implement things, good devs will use that advantage to make a great game more quickly and use the saved time productivly, bad devs will use that advantage to knock out turds quicker and save on production costs, I will let you guess which one I think Ubisoft is.
 
lol... thread number #6 on the same subject :D how can something be this important? fantastic.
 
To be fair, a sizeable amount of those threads have been started by certain AMD proponents showing GW in a bad light (with still no proof of course).

Gregster has a counter argument thread going, one which i'm sure Alatar posted in, if he didn't like the original thread because the OP was an accusation against Nvidia then why didn't he just use Gregsters thread.

Is it really necessary to flood the forum with these threads?
 
Gregster has a counter argument thread going, one which i'm sure Alatar posted in, if he didn't like the original thread because the OP was an accusation against Nvidia then why didn't he just use Gregsters thread.

Is it really necessary to flood the forum with these threads?

Same can be said of the unnecessary amount of Mantle based threads.
 
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