PCN - challengeable?

The_Arbiter said:
A different scenario, but local to me a bridge which was 50 mph got changed to 30mph on one side only pending structural bridge repairs. A mobile camera conveniently placed about 2 weeks later caught 500 odd people. In the end all 500 had their points and fines squashed and refunded. Whilst i never did find out why the signs were illegal, the police claimed a grace period for the signage change which wasn't true.

Might be something there, though depends on the effort you're willing to go to ultimately. Even when you know "they're" in the wrong, it's made so hard to get justice.
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A few years ago in my neck of the woods there was a road that was NSL. There was a downhill stretch then about 1/4 mile later it dropped to 30. Been this way since it was built.

One Sunday the council moved the 30 signs to halfway down the hill & Monday morning the local scamera pratnership had a van at the bottom.
Que the complaints and eventually all fines and points were quashed.

Council claimed that proper planning and consultation had been followed and signage was correct. Court found this not to be the case and actually found the required planning notices had been stapled to a tree, 35 yrd into the wooded area at the side of the road. They were forced to remove the new 30 signs and told to restart the entire process.
 
Hi there!
I just got caught by the exact same sign/camera! Wanted to check if you challenged it and it so what was the outcome?
 
Too late now, but what date did the alleged offence happen and when did the PCN arrive? While police generally issue FPN's promptly and in line with the legislation, local authorities are much worse at it. A good few years ago now I had a PCN from Havering alleging a no right turn violation, but because they didn't issue the PCN in line with the legislation - it arrived late, lied and blamed the DVLA, so I got the DVLA access records that showed Havering did not ask the DVLA for the information in time - they dropped it when it went to tribunal.
 
Resident said:
A few years ago in my neck of the woods there was a road that was NSL. There was a downhill stretch then about 1/4 mile later it dropped to 30. Been this way since it was built.

One Sunday the council moved the 30 signs to halfway down the hill & Monday morning the local scamera pratnership had a van at the bottom.
Que the complaints and eventually all fines and points were quashed.

Council claimed that proper planning and consultation had been followed and signage was correct. Court found this not to be the case and actually found the required planning notices had been stapled to a tree, 35 yrd into the wooded area at the side of the road. They were forced to remove the new 30 signs and told to restart the entire process.
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Our council extended a 30 leading to a village, but overlooked the fact it needs to apply to both lanes. So one direction had a 30 sign and the other still NSL :D I did see a van there a couple of times as well, not sure how that went down when the enviable appeals rolled in.

I'm sure there was an era when councils were actually good. But it's not this one. They just seem to outsource everything to the cheapest morons.
 
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Update:

I had all but forgotten/given up hope on this but my outcome from the tribunal came back the other day and it was successful due to the procedural error!
Now that this is over I still want to make a complaint to the council about the entire setup. In their supporting evidence that was sent to me it was admitted that this was installed because of the boy racers using the road at night so I guess that means they wont be removing it at all, however I still think it need vastly improving if its going to stay. To add to my point I was driving there the other week at night, noticed the signs were active and still saw one car enter and two cars exit in the few seconds I was driving past, all were presumably fined!

SonicSW20 said:
Too late now, but what date did the alleged offence happen and when did the PCN arrive? While police generally issue FPN's promptly and in line with the legislation, local authorities are much worse at it. A good few years ago now I had a PCN from Havering alleging a no right turn violation, but because they didn't issue the PCN in line with the legislation - it arrived late, lied and blamed the DVLA, so I got the DVLA access records that showed Havering did not ask the DVLA for the information in time - they dropped it when it went to tribunal.
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Happened mid Dec, got the letter about 3 weeks later, cutoff date is 28 days. Slow but legal!

wolfie138 said:
whinges about a PCN then admits he doesn't know the highway code.
hmm
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Well i definitely know now :D
 
Dealing with this at the moment.
Made a formal representation which has been declined, just got off the phone with the council.

Facts are the cctv shows no motor vehical signage, the only information just prior to entring the road meaning have to have made quick moneuver or just enter regardless.
Never noticed the sign as it is a road I have used a lot in past. No prior information about it being restricted were communicated. Bit of heads up as you enter the roundabout would be really appricated, why should they penalising law abiding citizen to catch law breaking racers...

I have been actively looking for this information online and found one thread about this, none of them offical.
Is this accetable??
 
The issue with these changes to signs is that, Just because your local doesn't change the sign.

We had a stretch of road in southport that was 40 limit just after the college but 30 limit before it. Over night they took the 40 limit signs away and stuck a camera van further down the road.

Lots of complaints from locals but as there was no 40limit signs then the 30 limit stood.

Imagine if it was your first visit to the area.. Chances are you'd repect the signs.
 
It sure as hell would be confusing if it's your normal route, know nothing about the fact that a decision has been made to allow the road to be closed to vehicles at certain random times, and come off a roundabout onto that road. It gets to the point that you know the road and can't be reasonably expected to know that a sign can now close the road. Be totally different if there was a manual "road closed" sign, for example, it would stand out as being something new.

I think the signage was poorly thought out, they probably needed to have two signs, one that digitally said "road closed" whilst blanking out the speed limit. Or indeed a separate permanent sign that informed that the road can be closed to motorised traffic. Yes I understand that everyone should know what the flying motorbike sign is, but the reality of human nature needs to be taken into account. It is going to be a money maker for the PCN people.

But I can see that legally it probably stands and its a bit of bugger.
 
mattyg said:
Imagine if it was your first visit to the area.. Chances are you'd repect the signs.
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Sounds like in OPs case, and OP please correct if wrong, the sign for the road closure (to motor vehicles) would only be visible once you have exited the roundabout onto said road. Which is fairly mental.

I got done by a school zone camera which appeared one afternoon. A road I have been using weekly at least for 20 years. Two small round signs with dense timing info, about 12ft in the air. right on the corner of the road. How the hell are you supposed to read and process that, while not running over suicidal deliveroo riders? I think it was 16:28 or so I was caught, 16:30 is when the restriction ends so I appealed on that ground and was given mercy. I suspect they collared thousands of drivers on that road alone.
 
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