Pentagon releases UFO footage

jigger said:
Those are the facts.
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they may well be but it would have been nice of you to have provided the links to back your claim without going through that silly little song and dance you felt the need to go on. it's not as if i asked you for proof of actual aliens!

however just posting 'those are the facts' doesn't answer why you felt the need to misrepresent my position. so i'll ask again, why did you do that?
 
Thekwango said:
...but i've genuinely not heard him make the claim it was aliens or even possibly aliens.
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One of the terms Grusch used was 'non-human biologics' when discussing the supposed 'secret' recovery and r&d government programme and what has been retrieved from crashed craft - https://news.sky.com/story/ufo-whis...d-non-human-biologics-at-crash-sites-12928343.

Edit - Just for extra clarification, this was from the Wed July 26th 2023 hearing and he mentions it below -

Edit 2 - NPR Article - https://www.npr.org/2023/07/27/1190390376/ufo-hearing-non-human-biologics-uaps
 
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Thekwango said:
What a weirdly arrogant post to make in reply to a joke.
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That wasn't my intention. It was a comment on the randomness of fame and how that applies to Schrodinger, not a comment on your post. Your post reminded me of it, but my reply wasn't directly about your post.

With hindsight I can see that I should have marked that separation by starting with a joke of my own, maybe something about the cat being/not being an alien.

My post was unclear. Sorry about that.
 
I'm going to assume for the sake of argument that the 100,000,000 figure was intended to be one estimate of the number of probably rocky planets in this galaxy that could receive an amount of energy from their star(s) that might allow for the presence of liquid water if all the geological and atmospheric conditions are right. What's sometimes very optimistically and misleadingly called "Earthlike planets" in the "habitable zone". I've seen a very wide range of estimates for that (because nobody really knows) but I'll assume that's what the number was intended to be. Mainly because I think it's a much more interesting subject than the Drake equation.

A few things come to mind when changing that estimate (which is itself extremely speculative) to make it an estimate of the number of places in this galaxy that might support life.

i) We've no idea how many (if any) of those planets do contain liquid water. The amount of incoming energy is only one factor in the presence of liquid water. Geological and atmospheric conditions have a huge effect and can radically change the surface temperature of a planet. We've got two examples right next door. Venus and Mars are both "Earthlike" planets in the "habitable zone". They're the most "Earthlike" planets we know of, although they're not really like Earth at all in the context of being habitable. But specifically about liquid water. None of that either. Mars is too cold, Venus is far too hot. Although maybe possibly Mars might have liquid water near the equator during summer. But it's certainly not habitable. How many of those "Earthlike" planets in "habitable zones" are actually capable of sustaining liquid water? We don't know.

ii) Being able to sustain liquid water isn't the same as having liquid water. We don't know where Earth's water came from, but the prevailing hypothesis is that it's extraterrestrial, delivered by impactors. How many of those "Earthlike" planets in "habitable zones" had a similar bombardment? We don't know.

iii) Planets might not be the only place where liquid water can exist. It's possible that some moons of some gas giants far outside a "habitable zone" have a layer with a temperature between 0C and 100C at some point between the core and the deep-frozen surface due to geological activity in the moon caused by the tidal forces of the gas giant.

iv) Some places with liquid water might not have been stable enough for long enough to sustain life.

v) Liquid water might not be the only requirement for sustaining life.

vi) Liquid water might not be essential for life. It's essential for life on Earth, but that's effectively a sample size of 1. Maybe liquid water is essential for life. Maybe life on Earth requires liquid water because it evolved on Earth and is therefore adapted to conditions on Earth.

vii) What is life, anyway? It's surprisingly hard to nail down a definition of life. Is a virus alive? What about a machine capable of constructing machines like itself? It ingests something it can use to power itself, it functions, it excretes (heat), it reproduces. Is that life? The phrase "It's life, Jim, but not as we know it" comes to mind.
 
Thekwango said:
I’m convinced cats are actual aliens. Blending in, pretending to be man’s second best friend but give it a few more years and you wait and see - they’ll rise up. You have all been warmed!
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We know that cats are the true rulers of the world already because their behaviour tells us so :)

When I was a kid, we had a cat turn up and move in. No idea where it came from. We tried to find out, but couldn't. The cat was "Yeah, my home now". It mentored some kittens we got a bit later. It all worked out fine and the cats kindly allowed us to live in their home. They even brought us dead rats for breakfast.
 
Quite an interesting scoop by The Guardian, essentially lifting the lid on this hoax.

www.theguardian.com

He quit heading the Pentagon’s UFO office. Now a report of his has shaken up ufology

Sean Kirkpatrick has faced threats for his work – and a new report concluding no evidence UAPs represented extraterrestrial tech has sent ufology into a tailspin
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

I feel sorry for Kirkpatrick, having his life ruined by cretins - but also good to see the actual paper trail of nonsense and scams is being uncovered. Not that suprising that most of the "research money" just got given to Robert Bigelow (Bigelow aerospace), and they presumably all got stoned on weed and pills, down at skinwalker ranch...

What a swizz.

The Pentagon gave $22m to AAWSAP in 2008 – and AAWSAP gave the funds to none other than Bigelow and his company, Bigelow Aerospace, who used the money to chase UFOs and the paranormal at Skinwalker Ranch.
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It's only unbelievable until it's believable though :p
Angilion said:
I'm going to assume for the sake of argument that the 100,000,000 figure was intended to be one estimate of the number of probably rocky planets in this galaxy that could receive an amount of energy from their star(s) that might allow for the presence of liquid water if all the geological and atmospheric conditions are right. What's sometimes very optimistically and misleadingly called "Earthlike planets" in the "habitable zone". I've seen a very wide range of estimates for that (because nobody really knows) but I'll assume that's what the number was intended to be. Mainly because I think it's a much more interesting subject than the Drake equation.

A few things come to mind when changing that estimate (which is itself extremely speculative) to make it an estimate of the number of places in this galaxy that might support life.

i) We've no idea how many (if any) of those planets do contain liquid water. The amount of incoming energy is only one factor in the presence of liquid water. Geological and atmospheric conditions have a huge effect and can radically change the surface temperature of a planet. We've got two examples right next door. Venus and Mars are both "Earthlike" planets in the "habitable zone". They're the most "Earthlike" planets we know of, although they're not really like Earth at all in the context of being habitable. But specifically about liquid water. None of that either. Mars is too cold, Venus is far too hot. Although maybe possibly Mars might have liquid water near the equator during summer. But it's certainly not habitable. How many of those "Earthlike" planets in "habitable zones" are actually capable of sustaining liquid water? We don't know.

ii) Being able to sustain liquid water isn't the same as having liquid water. We don't know where Earth's water came from, but the prevailing hypothesis is that it's extraterrestrial, delivered by impactors. How many of those "Earthlike" planets in "habitable zones" had a similar bombardment? We don't know.

iii) Planets might not be the only place where liquid water can exist. It's possible that some moons of some gas giants far outside a "habitable zone" have a layer with a temperature between 0C and 100C at some point between the core and the deep-frozen surface due to geological activity in the moon caused by the tidal forces of the gas giant.

iv) Some places with liquid water might not have been stable enough for long enough to sustain life.

v) Liquid water might not be the only requirement for sustaining life.

vi) Liquid water might not be essential for life. It's essential for life on Earth, but that's effectively a sample size of 1. Maybe liquid water is essential for life. Maybe life on Earth requires liquid water because it evolved on Earth and is therefore adapted to conditions on Earth.

vii) What is life, anyway? It's surprisingly hard to nail down a definition of life. Is a virus alive? What about a machine capable of constructing machines like itself? It ingests something it can use to power itself, it functions, it excretes (heat), it reproduces. Is that life? The phrase "It's life, Jim, but not as we know it" comes to mind.
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The only proof we have that liquid water is needed for life to evolve is us, a sample set of 1, there's is nothing that says life could not evolve under different conditions, like a liquid methane world or silicon based.

Also another angle for a wider discussion is this, in the next 10 years SpaceX is going to be trying to send humans to Mars to begin the first settlement plans on a Mars colony. This will happen in our lifetimes. Mars was once just like Earth before it lost its magnetic field which stopped solar radiation from wiping away its atmosphere, but below the surface could still exist liquid water and a protected environment to life still thrive, just like on Jupiter and Saturn's icy moons. All 3 bodies have future NASA missions to specifically go to them and check for evidence of life.

But back to Mars, this will be the first instance of humans setting foot on another planet, now let's say primitive life does dwell under the surface of Mars and those humans excavate sections and find such life, those lifeforms will likely consider the humans as gods from the skies, it's the logical thing for primitive intelligence, it's exactly what our species did back when thunder was worshipped as a god, or a tidal wave the product of a god etc etc.

So in the space of 100 years we have gone from zero satellites in space and no real technological advances and the only goings on around the world was warfare in muddy trenches to roadmapping planned habitation on another planet.

If that is what we have been capable of in 100 years then can you imagine what other life out there in a far richer solar system with heavier elements readily available to them vs the tiny amounts of rare ones we have been able to make use of?

None of this bypasses the fact that space is huge though, and light speed is a fixed figure, so any being with mass would still take hundreds to literal millions/billions of years to reach us depending on if they were from our nearest neighbours or from the far reaches of the Milky Way.

As for viruses and stuff, JMG just days ago posted a new video talking exactly about this, it's really good:


And on life itself, Astrum not long ago did a video on that topic:

 
It's only unbelievable until it's plausible though. But also:

mrk said:
The only proof we have that liquid water is needed for life to evolve is us, a sample set of 1, there's is nothing that says life could not evolve under different conditions, like a liquid methane world or silicon based.
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I know 'the truth is out there' but come on, really?
 
What are you asking, that methane based life could not exist or silicon?

We have little water bears that literally eat radiation and can survive the vacuum of space. We know extreme conditions are suitable to some lifeforms.
 
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