People that walk their Cat on a lead?

Caporegime
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Strange comparison. Declawing would be like having the tips of your fingers cut off.

Altering has lots of health benefits like not getting feline leukemia or AIDS, certain cancers too and stops shelters becoming overwhelmed with cats which benefits no one.

Claws are not bone, just keratin like nails, so nothing like having the tips of your fingers cut off, absurd comparison. Analysis of data on other animals like dogs have shown that castration significantly increases the risks of osteosarcoma and prostate cancer to the point where the risks outweigh the benefits.

At the end of the day these procedures are ultimately for human convenience not for the welfare of the animal so the comparison is valid.
 
Caporegime
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Claws are not bone, just keratin like nails, so nothing like having the tips of your fingers cut off, absurd comparison. Analysis of data on other animals like dogs have shown that castration significantly increases the risks of osteosarcoma and prostate cancer to the point where the risks outweigh the benefits.

At the end of the day these procedures are ultimately for human convenience not for the welfare of the animal so the comparison is valid.
Spaying and neutering cats prevents an explosion of unwanted cats that would ultimately starve because nobody wants them. Cats let's not forget are free to roam for the most part.

To say that it's mutilation purely for the owner's benefit is, frankly, nonsense.

Also declawing is known to lead to paw pain, nerve damage, infection, lameness and all sorts of horrid effects.

I honestly can't believe you're comparing neutering, which every vet in the country will advocate for, to de-clawing, which is a banned and condemned universally by the same vets.

It's like you have no idea what you're talking about. You do know that de-clawing doesn't simply involve removing the keratin of the claw itself... that would be clipping :p They have to remove the whole end of the "toe", including the bit that makes the claw grow.
 
Caporegime
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Spaying and neutering cats prevents an explosion of unwanted cats that would ultimately starve because nobody wants them. Cats let's not forget are free to roam for the most part.

Right so it's for human convenience, they can let their cats roam.

I honestly can't believe you're comparing neutering, which every vet in the country will advocate for, to de-clawing, which is a banned and condemned universally by the same vets.

Yes every vet is going to advocate for neutering when you consider the financial conflicts of interest involved, i.e. it being their primary source of income. Every vet wants to neuter animals even when the scientific data shows a net harm in some species.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fvets.2019.00397/full

Gonadectomy is an important reproductive management tool employed in many countries, and is highly prevalent in the US with an estimated 85% of dogs being neutered. Despite the societal benefits in pet population control, negative associations between neuter status, and health conditions have been reported in recent years. Most particularly observed are the consequences of early age neutering. Knowing that different physiological systems rely upon gonadal steroids during development and physiological maintenance, studies have been undertaken to assess the impact of neuter status on multiple body and organ systems. For some inherited conditions, neutering is associated with an increased risk of expression. Neutering has also been associated with altered metabolism and a predisposition for weight gain in dogs, which may confound the detected risk association between neutering and disease expression. This review summarizes the effects of neutering on cancer, orthopedic, and immune disorders in the dog and also explores the potentially exacerbating factor of body weight.

Cancer
For cancers having an inherited component, there is a generalized trend for an increase in risk associated with neutering across breeds and sexes. The physiological mechanism underlying that breed specific susceptibility for cancer is unknown although it may be related to breed-specific genetic signatures of the major histocompatibility complex (47, 48), a component of the immune surveillance that can detect developing tumor cells (49) as well as other ancestry related susceptibility.

Orthopedic Disorders
Given the interaction of gonadal steroids and normal musculoskeletal development (24, 84), it is unsurprising that neutering impacts bone elongation in the dog (23) and thus, inherited conditions related to bone maturation. In one large study across many dog breeds, neutered males were at risk for hip dysplasia and neutered females for cruciate ligament damage with dogs of large and giant breeds at the greatest risk (85).

Immune-Mediated Disorders
Female dogs, as also seen in humans and mice, are more prone to immune-mediated disorders (97, 98) and neutering appears to exacerbate that risk. The risk of certain immune diseases is elevated with neutering in both males and females: atopic dermatitis, autoimmune hemolytic anemia, hypoadrenocorticism, hypothyroidism, immune-mediated thrombocytopenia, inflammatory bowel disease, and systemic lupus erythematosus (14, 28, 99102). For dogs diagnosed with hypoadrenocorticism, the relative risk of death is 2-fold higher than that seen for other dogs and in a large retrospective study in Sweden, breed by sex interactions were detected with some breeds exhibiting a female predisposition although in other breeds, both sexes were equally affected (103).

Weight as a Co-Factor
Although there exists conflicting information as to whether neutering alters metabolism thereby causing weight gain in dogs (129), neutering is viewed as a common predisposing risk factor for obesity, most especially for cats but also for dogs (130137). Neutering associated with increased body weight is speculated to reflect energetic metabolic changes (138), dysregulated feeding behavior (139), and the removal of estrogen, a known regulator of food intake in cats (140). Obesity is a risk factor for many disorders and that risk between disease and obesity is overrepresented in females (141). This suggests a role for gonadal steroids across many inherited diseases and an interaction with body weight.

Summary
In many cases, neutering is promoted as the means to reduce the number of dogs euthanized in shelters, although one study (148) reported that “no clear results were found demonstrating the impact of total spay/neuter procedures on shelter intake.” With 85% of the dogs in the United States neutered (149) and yet ~3.3 million dogs enter a shelter annually in the United States (150), there are reasons beyond a failure to neuter that account for the number of dogs relinquished to shelters. With that backdrop, neutering is not the sole answer to reduce shelter euthanasia. However, there are definite advantages to neutering beyond preventing unwanted pregnancies including offering substantial convenience for owners and a reduction or elimination of some reproductive disorders.
 
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Caporegime
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I'll trust that every single vet up and down the country and indeed all over the world is not advocating neutering for financial gain. Do you know that many will offer that service for free? Not a great way to make money, huh?

Also, cats are not dogs.
 
Caporegime
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Claws are not bone, just keratin like nails, so nothing like having the tips of your fingers cut off, absurd comparison. Analysis of data on other animals like dogs have shown that castration significantly increases the risks of osteosarcoma and prostate cancer to the point where the risks outweigh the benefits.

At the end of the day these procedures are ultimately for human convenience not for the welfare of the animal so the comparison is valid.

10 seconds of google would save you from looking like an idiot. They don't just remove the actual nail.

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Man of Honour
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To try to put this thread back onto a light hearted path, just LOL if you need a lead for your cat and don't take them everywher on a motorcycle.

 
Soldato
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I don't mind cats but single guys who buy a cat for themselves seem a bit weird

Not at all. Before I remarried, I got a cat for company. I was out working all day and wouldn't have been fair for a dog to be home a lot. Cats dont mind being alone and are easier to clean up after (litter tray) I still have Jinx and she's 14 now so not long left for her and I'll be sad when she passes on. I had great fun with her when it wa just the cat and I. Playing table tennis fetch and just watching her go mad with the ball was funny. Some catnip and I just turned off the TV to be entertained lol
 
Man of Honour
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some geeser round my way takes his parrot for a walk perched on his shoulder.
I think I know that guy. He must have been in a serious accident. Walks on a crutch, has a hook for a hand and wears an eye patch. I guess at least the parrot keeps him company.
 
Associate
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To try to put this thread back onto a light hearted path, just LOL if you need a lead for your cat and don't take them everywher on a motorcycle.
Or pedal bike:


I thought cats on a lead was a bit strange but after watching the above guys adventures around Europe with an abandoned kitten he found in Bosnia 3 years ago, I can see the appeal!
 
Soldato
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Claws are not bone, just keratin like nails, so nothing like having the tips of your fingers cut off, absurd comparison. Analysis of data on other animals like dogs have shown that castration significantly increases the risks of osteosarcoma and prostate cancer to the point where the risks outweigh the benefits.

At the end of the day these procedures are ultimately for human convenience not for the welfare of the animal so the comparison is valid.

Yeah except declawing doesn't remove just the claw it removes the finger at the 1st joint its effectively mutilation which is why its banned here as well as iirc europe

And that photo above is pretty... disturbing.
 
Caporegime
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I'll trust that every single vet up and down the country and indeed all over the world is not advocating neutering for financial gain. Do you know that many will offer that service for free? Not a great way to make money, huh?

Also, cats are not dogs.

Doesn't just talk about dogs.

neutering is viewed as a common predisposing risk factor for obesity, most especially for cats

In the USA infant circumcision is a routine thing as well despite the medical evidence showing no real benefit and the procedure being extremely painful, do you want to go in that op? I doubt it. It's an appeal to authority and an appeal to popularity fallacy.
 
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Caporegime
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So you're comparing a risk of obesity with actual mutilation (de-clawing). Just give up, you've lost the plot.

I'm not saying they are like for like, I am saying that these procedures are primarily done for human benefit, so it's not some clear cut moral issue that you make it out to be.

Breeding animals carries a significant risk of injury or death too, done for money, not the animals interest.
 
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