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physx card

BaDBoY16 said:
no because the company have only specialized through physics in this game, they only wanted to test what it would be like download it and see what you think
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Your just illustrating that you don't really need a ppu to get impressive physics in game.

I don't mean you any offense , but your basically shooting your own argument in the proverbial foot. I understand you saying you want a PPU because it will give you physics like what are in that demo, but it defeats the point of having one if its possible under software.

How old are you btw?
 
z0mbi3 said:
How old are you btw?
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You could guess from the name or alternatively look in the profile to get the correct age :)

I will say in fairness that having a PPU doesn't become pointless if it can be done in software, it only becomes pointless when/if the PPU doesn't have a positive impact on the framerates because it has taken away some of the processing from the CPU.
 
At the moment multicore CPUs aren't being utilised to anywhere near their full advantage, so we've got plenty of CPU power just sat there begging for use in physics calculations, an add in card just seems a really sloppy way of doing it.
 
BaDBoY16 said:
im only sixteen and i was only trying to show you a good game
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I didn't mean anything bad by asking your age, I just didn't believe you were 16 :confused:

Anyway that aside, I know you're showing me a good game and I did mean no offence when I said it. The physics in it are impressive. I just don't see how you can justify sitting on a PPU worth ~£150 when you want your future games to have the physics of a game thats has no dependancy on a supporting card.

Minstadave said:
At the moment multicore CPUs aren't being utilised to anywhere near their full advantage, so we've got plenty of CPU power just sat there begging for use in physics calculations, an add in card just seems a really sloppy way of doing it.
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Exactly. Its like saying how much more performace you could gain if game code was optimised for lower spec hardware scenarios.
 
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“At the moment multicore CPUs aren't being utilised to anywhere near their full advantage, so we've got plenty of CPU power just sat there begging for use in physics calculations, an add in card just seems a really sloppy way of doing it.“
I agree not enough games utilised dual core fully but the games that do utilised dual core fully and support the PPU are still benefiting a lot from the PPU. You get a large performance boost when you add the PPU on top of the dual core. The benchmarks prove dual core isn’t enough for physics and dual core with a PPU is far better then without a PPU. I don’t get way so many people think dual cores alone are enough for physics when all the benchmarks show its not.

Take COH which fully utilised dual core as you got a large speed boost from dual core. Now add a PPU and you get a further large speed boost. Clearly dual core is being fully utilised due to the speed boost. This proves that the PPU is not sloppy and that dual core alone is not enough.

Some games do utilised dual cores fully.
 
“UT2007 will not use the ppu for 'online physics' only for graphical eye candy as there would be far too much physics data to send, evan for broadband to handle.
That is not what I have just come up with, it's what a deve;oper of UT2007 said in an interview.”
I thought the developer meant they where not going to use the PPU for extra physics only speeds up the current physics by offloading form the CPU. This doesn’t change how much physics data has to be sent over the Internet.

Some people forget there are 3 use's for the PPU.
· Add extra gameplay physics.
· Don’t add extra gameplay physics but speed up FPS by offloading current physics from the CPU
· Add extra effect physics.

UT2007 is meant to use the bottom two not the top one.
 
Pottsey said:
“UT2007 will not use the ppu for 'online physics' only for graphical eye candy as there would be far too much physics data to send, evan for broadband to handle.
That is not what I have just come up with, it's what a deve;oper of UT2007 said in an interview.”
I thought the developer meant they where not going to use the PPU for extra physics only speeds up the current physics by offloading form the CPU. This doesn’t change how much physics data has to be sent over the Internet.

Some people forget there are 3 use's for the PPU.
· Add extra gameplay physics.
· Don’t add extra gameplay physics but speed up FPS by offloading current physics from the CPU
· Add extra effect physics.

UT2007 is meant to use the bottom two not the top one.
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No, it is being used for extra eye candy and wont affect gameplay.
 
Pottsey said:

I agree not enough games utilised dual core fully but the games that do utilised dual core fully and support the PPU are still benefiting a lot from the PPU. You get a large performance boost when you add the PPU on top of the dual core.
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...it is supposed to provide a 'large performance boost' but we have yet to see it so you can't honestly say that. So far we have seen extra bits and pieces and one or two effect addons. Lets keep the capabililties of the PhysX card honest huh?
 
“...it is supposed to provide a 'large performance boost' but we have yet to see it so you can't honestly say that. So far we have seen extra bits and pieces and one or two effect addons. Lets keep the capabililties of the PhysX card honest huh?“
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2828&p=3 looks like a large performance boost to me. Perhaps we just have different definitions of large. I consider 30 to 60% speed boost large. What do you consider large?

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Pottsey said:
“...it is supposed to provide a 'large performance boost' but we have yet to see it so you can't honestly say that. So far we have seen extra bits and pieces and one or two effect addons. Lets keep the capabililties of the PhysX card honest huh?“
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2828&p=3 looks like a large performance boost to me. Perhaps we just have different definitions of large. I consider 30 to 60% speed boost large. What do you consider large?
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Did you actually read the article? - I'll drop a couple of quotes and keep in mind that this is based on a single game and optimisation completed by the creators of the game City of Villians, and little to do with Ageias changes and patching.

There's no question that a PhysX card will give better performance in City of Villains at the highest settings, and at times that difference can be pretty sizable. But as we found out, using a slightly lower quality physics mode will result in graphics similar to the highest mode where the PhysX card shines, but at performance levels nearly equal to the PhysX card just by using a dual-core CPU.

For someone currently using a single-core CPU and working with a limited budget, an upgrade to a dual-core CPU is going to be superior to adding the PhysX card in City of Villains, and it's going to be much more useful in games and applications where the PhysX card can't be used.

If AGEIA could even promise a consistent 25% performance boost over software mode in several games, more people would be interested in the technology. The problem is, many games are completely GPU limited, so faster physics processing doesn't necessarily help. What we end up with is the classic chicken vs. egg problem: without a large installed base of PPUs, how many developers will even bother to try and take advantage of the technology, and without software that takes advantage of the technology, who will want to buy the hardware? ATI and NVIDIA are also working on trying to accelerate physics with their GPUs, and every gamer will already have that technology available. GPU-based physics calculations might not be a good solution in games that are already GPU limited, but faster processors and PPUs won't help such games either.
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I hate to say it Pottsey, but that is a pretty damning article for the Ageia PhysX card. Sure, it makes "A" game faster but adding the PhysX card is not going to increase speed by default.
 
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“I hate to say it Pottsey, but that is a pretty damning article for the Ageia PhysX card. Sure, it makes "A" game faster but adding the PhysX card is not going to increase speed by default.”
I don’t think I ever said the PPU will make games faster by default and I said a number of times it use is limited due to the lack of game support. The link was to show your comments wasn’t true/accurate not to suggest all games get a performance boost. You said“'large performance boost' but we have yet to see it so you can't honestly say that.”
The link was to show what I said was true and that we have seen a large performance boost. So I can honestly say the PPU can boost speed. Not Just COH either but a number of games can get a performance boost from the PPU. Well not many but its more then 1.

If one game can come out with a good performance boost over dual core with the PPU then more games can and should come out.





“I hate to say it Pottsey, but that is a pretty damning article for the Ageia PhysX card. Sure, it makes "A" game faster but adding the PhysX card is not going to increase speed by default.”
There is just no pleasing some people. The PPU is getting better and better with each passing month. The older games no longer have the large slowdowns and the new games use the PPU better with a good performance boost over dual core. How the PPU is now is how it should have been at the start. Buts at least it’s making good improvements all we need now are more games to support it and those are coming out slowly. To slowly mind you but they are coming.
 
Pottsey said:
“I hate to say it Pottsey, but that is a pretty damning article for the Ageia PhysX card. Sure, it makes "A" game faster but adding the PhysX card is not going to increase speed by default.”
I don’t think I ever said the PPU will make games faster by default and I said a number of times it use is limited due to the lack of game support. The link was to show your comments wasn’t true/accurate not to suggest all games get a performance boost. You said“'large performance boost' but we have yet to see it so you can't honestly say that.”
The link was to show what I said was true and that we have seen a large performance boost. So I can honestly say the PPU can boost speed. Not Just COH either but a number of games can get a performance boost from the PPU. Well not many but its more then 1.
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But surely that is a matter of opinion. From my perspective and also from the reviewers perspective the performance gain was from optimisation completed by the game devs and similar gains could be made from upgrading the CPU. In my eyes, that doesn't do anything towards validating the hardware. As was commented by the reviewer, spending the same money on a dual core CPU has far greater across the board benefits than spending on a PPU.

Lets be really clear here. I LOVE THE PPU CONCEPT. What I don't love is the current implimentation and I don't believe that Ageia should have attempted to release the hardware on the rather meager laurals that they did. It was a release of promises and much like politicians, they failed to deliver. IMO stating that the hardware provides a large boost in performance is not honest at all, and with all due respect, you did make a sweeping statement rather than a quantified one. (linky)

Pottsey said:
If one game can come out with a good performance boost over dual core with the PPU then more games can and should come out.
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I agree, but as I previously stated, these games just arent coming out. The 'Available Now' list on the Ageia site isn't getting any bigger, and that is an issue for Ageia and for the PhysX hardware.



Pottsey said:
There is just no pleasing some people. The PPU is getting better and better with each passing month. The older games no longer have the large slowdowns and the new games use the PPU better with a good performance boost over dual core. How the PPU is now is how it should have been at the start. Buts at least it’s making good improvements all we need now are more games to support it and those are coming out slowly. To slowly mind you but they are coming.
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I dissagree, the PPU still has a hell of a long way to go before we could even consider it to be "how it should have been at the start". The increases in performance and the work involved to get these increases should've been completed in the Dev stages and a significantly more finished product released to the public. The fact that it was released with minimal 3rd party support and very little support from game devs caused the release to be something of a fizzer. IMO we should've had a far more finished product in our hands on release and the fact that someone picked one up for £20 kind of indicates that someone else might agree with me.
 
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