Caporegime
Does the 911 have ajustable castor and droop?
Planning some suspension mods for the 911 - any suspension experts resident?
- Thread starter Gibbo
- Start date
Gibbo, forgive me if you're a professional driver or something, but wouldn't you benefit more from spending some money on some proper training?
Years ago when I had the RS4 I was convinced it had so many problems with this, that and the other (well, to be fair, it did in some ways
) that I spent a small fortune fixing. I then ended up spending a few days with John from DriveTrain (lol Advert etc.) and I realised a lot of my perceived issues with the car were actually with my driving. A tough fact for me to accept, driving god that I am.
These days I'm loathe to mess with my cars before I mess with my driving style. Spending a lot of time in AWD drive Audis meant I was utterly terrified of powerful RWD for example, and it took some education/training for me to understand why and adjust my driving style accordingly.
Something worth thinking about.
Years ago when I had the RS4 I was convinced it had so many problems with this, that and the other (well, to be fair, it did in some ways
) that I spent a small fortune fixing. I then ended up spending a few days with John from DriveTrain (lol Advert etc.) and I realised a lot of my perceived issues with the car were actually with my driving. A tough fact for me to accept, driving god that I am.These days I'm loathe to mess with my cars before I mess with my driving style. Spending a lot of time in AWD drive Audis meant I was utterly terrified of powerful RWD for example, and it took some education/training for me to understand why and adjust my driving style accordingly.
Something worth thinking about.
My advice is get someone like Sean Edwards in your car for a day before you go messing with it as you can chase the wrong things very easily with Porche's and that will get very expensive very quickly. You need someone who really knows Porsche's to set a marker in your car and tell you what he would adivse. A few hundred quid spent doing this might save you several grand doing something you neither benefit from or really need. All 911's understeer and I think you could improve your technique to improve that. You are going well no question now but I still think there is more time in your car as it is, though I am not the right person to tell you where and how to find it! 
Caporegime
In fairness, the rear wheels do look negatively cambered, but it's probably just the photo.
Soldato
- Joined
- 12 Dec 2002
- Posts
- 2,950
I'm no expert but a stiffer rear anti-roll bar and an extra -1 or -2 degrees of front camber will help reduce understeer. How the car behaves on corner entry and mid corner once you have done this is a bit less predictable.
Gibbo, forgive me if you're a professional driver or something, but wouldn't you benefit more from spending some money on some proper training?
Years ago when I had the RS4 I was convinced it had so many problems with this, that and the other (well, to be fair, it did in some ways
These days I'm loathe to mess with my cars before I mess with my driving style. Spending a lot of time in AWD drive Audis meant I was utterly terrified of powerful RWD for example, and it took some education/training for me to understand why and adjust my driving style accordingly.
Something worth thinking about.
Yes this is true, but not meaning to sound big headed and as Housey says I am going quite well as it is, yes still room for improvement but I feel now that looking to dial out the understeer which 911's have is not a bad thing.
I am not looking to do something which is new or Porsche have not done themselves and the wheel spacers is a cheap and easy option, if they dont work they come off easily, if they do work then great.
Nope your spot on!
Some just fit a rear GT3 bar, this dials it out quite a bit, but is not really the ideal solution as essentially all your doing is giving the rear less grip to give the car a better balance.
If I go with GT3 bars, lower arms then the GEO has to be re-done and the car setup to my driving style, aka a date with Chris Franklin. Even fitting wheel spacers will effect the GEO, but nothing drastic.
My advice is get someone like Sean Edwards in your car for a day before you go messing with it as you can chase the wrong things very easily with Porche's and that will get very expensive very quickly. You need someone who really knows Porsche's to set a marker in your car and tell you what he would adivse. A few hundred quid spent doing this might save you several grand doing something you neither benefit from or really need. All 911's understeer and I think you could improve your technique to improve that. You are going well no question now but I still think there is more time in your car as it is, though I am not the right person to tell you where and how to find it!
Yes agreed m8 and yep improving myself will help but I think you will agree a Carrera has a lot of understeer dialled into the suspension as standard and this is pronounced heavily on track, instead of trying to perfect my trail braking skills, I'd rather it just had a lot more direct front-end with more grip just like a GT3 and as the parts which give the GT3 the better front-end are available then I'd like to play, of course I am not gonna fit anything like that myself simply because afterwards the car would drive terrible as a GEO is a certain requirement.
But fact is my car has just under -1 degree front camber which is absolutely shocking and is why it pushes wide so much on track, the front arms will give me 2.5-3 degrees negative front really allowing for much more front-end bite and I'd aim to run around 2.0-2.2 on a daily driven car to not have bad tyre wear or experiment, but hence a GEO as the whole car needs to be setup so it handles better as a whole, but I will tell you now I hate understeer and on track mine has plenty evident and being able to remove some/most of this will make the car more enjoyable for me.
Soldato
Have you tried adjusting your braking, i.e. not braking while steering and braking harder to shift more weight to the nose, then releasing and turning in then smoothly powering around the corner when appropriate? The tyres can only do so much, after all.
I wouldn't bother with trail braking. That won't be helping your situation.
Sounds like fun, either way.
I wouldn't bother with trail braking. That won't be helping your situation.
Sounds like fun, either way.
how is trail braking making it worse for him?
Associate
Hi Gibbo,
You should take a look at: centergravity.co.uk
Give them a call & see what they recommend for your car,
~ Thomas.
You should take a look at: centergravity.co.uk
Give them a call & see what they recommend for your car,
~ Thomas.
+1
Give Chris (top bloke!) a call. He is a porsche specialist and enthusiast and can work miracles on the handling of cars. I would definitely get him to recommend what was needed. He is a man who knows what he is talking about!!
Additional cost of GT3, 20-30k. Cost of spacers, £100, cost of swaybars approx £400 and lower arms approx £500 plus a GEO.
So no selling the Carrera which I know is a good example for an unknown GT3 at 20-30k more is not an option.
I cant make my car handle like a GT3 or go like a GT3, if that was possible for a few grand most would do it, but I can improve the Carrera with some basic subtle little mods and then another GEO.
I know Chris, spoken to him already, he also made the Mustang handle out of this world, he is a genius.
Soldato
Because you have to be incredibly precise in applying the brakes, know exactly where you are going and operate within a very narrow window of braking.
It's quite a wasteful process if you get it wrong, and can be quite wasteful generally. Get the braking done before the corner, don't overdo the control inputs.
Understeer implies that you're trying to carry too much speed, or working the car too hard in the corner.
Braking during a corner can really unbalance things undesirably if you're not careful and can lead to substantial understeer if done incorrectly, exacerbating any underlying issues.
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going into the corner on the brakes keeps the weight transferred to the front and does wonders for cars that want to understeer on entry or be sluggish turning in
none of that will help him when leaving a corner when the front wants to wash out too
hence my suggestion to decrease rear toe to make the rear less sluggish changing direction/ giving the front more influence over the rear
Soldato
Only if you know exactly what you're doing, as I said.