Planning some suspension mods for the 911 - any suspension experts resident?
- Thread starter Gibbo
- Start date
Hi there
Spoke to Mr Franklin directly myself at lunch time.
He says front spacers on a 911, particular Carrera works well, hence why Porsche sell them and offer as a factory option.
He basically said yes you induce more scrub, but with 5mm-7mm spacers the advantages outweight the dis-advantages and swapping spacers in and out does not need a re-visit for a GEO.
He said if it was him, he'd have 3mm, 5mm, 7mm and even maybe a 10-12mm too and would experiment with fitting them on the front, back, all at once etc. until got the best driving result.
He says going with 5mm back and 7mm front is a good idea and should be a marginal positive improvement, he gave thumbs up.
Also had a great chat about GT3 Anti-Roll bars, lower arms, again these will give very good improvements for someone who is not a master of trail braking and will certainly be able to set the car up with such parts to make it an understeer king or an oversteer king or simply neutral with a good increase in all round grip levels, resulting in quicker corner speeds.
He said on the MPSS Michelin are saying they work best between -2 too -2.5 negative camber, but any more is not recommended, as such he reckons -1.75 for road and he will do it if I want so I can just undo top mounts, slide right over to give -2.50 for when on track, finish track, undo and push back over. He said this works well and saves having to re-setup the GEO for road or track work. Though fact is 1.75 negative camber would be a huge improvement over the current useless 0.8 negative camber I have.
Still gonna play with spacers myself, find the optimal setup, then save the pennies and visit Chris for some new bits and a full fast road/track GEO setup.
Spoke to Mr Franklin directly myself at lunch time.
He says front spacers on a 911, particular Carrera works well, hence why Porsche sell them and offer as a factory option.
He basically said yes you induce more scrub, but with 5mm-7mm spacers the advantages outweight the dis-advantages and swapping spacers in and out does not need a re-visit for a GEO.
He said if it was him, he'd have 3mm, 5mm, 7mm and even maybe a 10-12mm too and would experiment with fitting them on the front, back, all at once etc. until got the best driving result.
He says going with 5mm back and 7mm front is a good idea and should be a marginal positive improvement, he gave thumbs up.
Also had a great chat about GT3 Anti-Roll bars, lower arms, again these will give very good improvements for someone who is not a master of trail braking and will certainly be able to set the car up with such parts to make it an understeer king or an oversteer king or simply neutral with a good increase in all round grip levels, resulting in quicker corner speeds.
He said on the MPSS Michelin are saying they work best between -2 too -2.5 negative camber, but any more is not recommended, as such he reckons -1.75 for road and he will do it if I want so I can just undo top mounts, slide right over to give -2.50 for when on track, finish track, undo and push back over. He said this works well and saves having to re-setup the GEO for road or track work. Though fact is 1.75 negative camber would be a huge improvement over the current useless 0.8 negative camber I have.
Still gonna play with spacers myself, find the optimal setup, then save the pennies and visit Chris for some new bits and a full fast road/track GEO setup.
Sounds like you've already spoken to Chris, glad I recommended him to you all those years ago! Does he still do the 'roundabout test' ?
I think your right to have a play with parts as your competent than the average joe on here behind the wheel, but as ever, training training training will help a lot. Different techniques, lines, etc will help you make decent improvements without spending as much as I'd expect you will need to if you get Chris involved.
I did the arb upgrade before suspension on my s2000 based on the advice of Chris and it gave me a nice middle ground.
How far can you go without impacting the opc warranty ?
I think your right to have a play with parts as your competent than the average joe on here behind the wheel, but as ever, training training training will help a lot. Different techniques, lines, etc will help you make decent improvements without spending as much as I'd expect you will need to if you get Chris involved.
I did the arb upgrade before suspension on my s2000 based on the advice of Chris and it gave me a nice middle ground.
How far can you go without impacting the opc warranty ?
Soldato
At the rear.
Generally speaking the softer end will grip better once geometry is right etc.
Hi there
Well went to put the 7mm spacers on the front last night and discovered the car has 5mm spacers fitted all round.
I guess this explains even more so now that why when I test drove a few 911's mine just seem to drive quite a bit better, no doubt due to the 5mm factory spacers and ceramic brakes.
Anyway I still fitted the 7mm fronts as my aim was to go 5mm on rear and 7mm on front as this was my target, just saved pennies by the car already having the 5mm already fitted on the rear.
As such I did not expect to notice much difference, as afterall I've only increased the front track by 4mm overall.
But too my surprise it is noticable and in a positive way, zero negatives. Car still goes to understeer, but definetely more later than it did before, meaning its more closer to a neutral handling setup instead of just understeer and more understeer. Now its more front-end bite, grip, minor understeer which is easily provoked into quite a neutral feeling car. Overall the car just feels more controllable with a better front-end, turn in and response to bumps all seems a little better giving an overall better feel and more fun drive. Car is certainly not oversteer happy though or even close, still tons of grip in the rear, I feel getting more front negative camber would really perfect the car.
Can only imagine the difference it must make going from a 911 with no spacers to this must give a great improvement, so very happy these initial results from such a simple mod and Chris Franklin was certainly spot on, widening the front track would help reduce understeer.
Also picked up new ceramics for the front at the weekend, OUCH!
Question is now I can fit 996 GT3 front arms and get about a further additional 1 degree negative front camber, so would fitting GT3 anti-roll bars give the car more overall grip or would they just be a waste if I did not want them for the ajustability?
Well went to put the 7mm spacers on the front last night and discovered the car has 5mm spacers fitted all round.
I guess this explains even more so now that why when I test drove a few 911's mine just seem to drive quite a bit better, no doubt due to the 5mm factory spacers and ceramic brakes.
Anyway I still fitted the 7mm fronts as my aim was to go 5mm on rear and 7mm on front as this was my target, just saved pennies by the car already having the 5mm already fitted on the rear.
As such I did not expect to notice much difference, as afterall I've only increased the front track by 4mm overall.
But too my surprise it is noticable and in a positive way, zero negatives. Car still goes to understeer, but definetely more later than it did before, meaning its more closer to a neutral handling setup instead of just understeer and more understeer. Now its more front-end bite, grip, minor understeer which is easily provoked into quite a neutral feeling car. Overall the car just feels more controllable with a better front-end, turn in and response to bumps all seems a little better giving an overall better feel and more fun drive. Car is certainly not oversteer happy though or even close, still tons of grip in the rear, I feel getting more front negative camber would really perfect the car.
Can only imagine the difference it must make going from a 911 with no spacers to this must give a great improvement, so very happy these initial results from such a simple mod and Chris Franklin was certainly spot on, widening the front track would help reduce understeer.
Also picked up new ceramics for the front at the weekend, OUCH!
Question is now I can fit 996 GT3 front arms and get about a further additional 1 degree negative front camber, so would fitting GT3 anti-roll bars give the car more overall grip or would they just be a waste if I did not want them for the ajustability?
Personally I wouldn't start swapping suspension bits, you will be simply throwing money away as you'll see none of it back come resale and the hard on track boys who track GT3's tend to swap off the stock parts anyway and some of them spend up to £15K getting the best suspension set up they can. A 911 will understeer but geo on a GT3 does make it easier to dial that out, mine was a little vague and floaty on factory settings but road safe, you drove it with track geo and you know how much it bucked and bounced around and followed cambers and surfaces. It's a compromise always with set up and placebo effect is a great way to keep chasing improvement for little real world benefit most situations or worse, a step backwards as it becomes less well sorted on bumpy surfaces.