Platypus' Beginners Guide to Running

[D.P.]

For balance, My 15.2 mile MLR yesterday was completely uneventful. First 10 miles was an easy cruise, dull pain slowly crept up and I would say by mile 13 it was moderate due to a combination of cumulative fatigue form having my LR on Saturday and the 1500ft of climbing which is mostly at the end.


The discomfort level I believe was exactly spot on for a MLR as described by Pfitzinger, where the aim is to get some of the same benefits of the LR without pushing yourself so far beyond the point your muscles and joints start responding negatively. In this respect it is very similar to Hanson's reasoning for the 16 mile LR cap, but Hanson has flawed logic in restricting LRs to 16 miles IMO based on scientific evidence.


I did those 15.2 miles 16 second a mile than the week before, a day closer to my LR, with a fraction of the of the discomfort and far easier recovery, woke up this morning fit as a fiddle and did 5 easy treadmill miles before doing weights.



The point is when you suffer very tired tired/stuff legs it could be a result of a number of factors from diet, sleep, hydration, immune system response, hormonal changes, temperature, humidity, and prior training.

Will see how tomorrows intervals go.

 

[rhysduck]

This all seems very scientific and overly analysed just for some running

There's me just going for the odd run or 2 a week for a half marathon

 

[Buckster]

first club session in about 3 weeks - shattered - was only 6 miles

first XC race this weekend - really not ready - about 14lbs heavier than this time last year !

 

[The Darkness]

This all seems very scientific and overly analysed just for some running

There's me just going for the odd run or 2 a week for a half marathon

On one level I agree - you dont need all this analysis to run a half marathon. But to be honest, the difference between running a half marathon and knocking minutes off your PB marathon time is huge - really massive. Just in training for a marathon you are likely to run at least half marathon distance well over 10 times. If you've run a marathon you will appreciate this, and if you havent yet - be prepared!

 

[D.P.]

This all seems very scientific and overly analysed just for some running

There's me just going for the odd run or 2 a week for a half marathon

I'm a scientists and want my training backed by science not anecdotes.
I am also 100% dedicated to get the best results I can during this training regime because I know at least next year it won't be possible with my work/life schedule.

If you just want to turn a half you barely need to train. If you want to race a marathon, as in get your fastest time, then there is a critical and tiring training regime.
I can job out 13 mile in under 2 hours with barely batting an lid, extending those 13 to 20 miles is a whole new world of effort, let alone racing another 10k on top. They say that a marathon is a 20mile warm up and a 10k race. 20 miles is like the half way point.

 

[Indigo]

My XC spikes came today, really looking forward to race season starting on Saturday now.

Going to rest for the next 3 days though, see how my legs feel with my hamstrings and glutes and see what happens. Booking a physio appointment for the next 1-2 weeks, getting a sports massage and thinking ahead in terms of injury prevention rather than getting niggles constantly.

 

[D.P.]

I had a good running day today. Intervals on strong legs setting a new average record, then a good tempo run where I again set a record time. 12.5 miles at 7:46 average with much of the tempo over hilly forest trails (, e.g. 1 of the miles average 9:30 despite more effort than the road miles at 8:20).

So no, I think last weeks training was fine. It was hard, my legs often felt bad but it is one of those things. This week, despite having less of a break before my ey workouts since the last LR are going very well.

tomorrow will be around 8-9 miles at easy pace. Legs will be stiff to start with no doubt, but thats what happens after good intervals.

 

[firstborn]

I had a good running day today. Intervals on strong legs setting a new average record, then a good tempo run where I again set a record time. 12.5 miles at 7:46 average with much of the tempo over hilly forest trails (, e.g. 1 of the miles average 9:30 despite more effort than the road miles at 8:20).

You must have had some pretty damn fast miles in there as well then - your posts confuse the hell out of me.

 

[rhysduck]

You're not the only one firstborn! Never make sense to me

 

[D.P.]

You must have had some pretty damn fast miles in there as well then - your posts confuse the hell out of me.

Sorry for any confusion. Yes, the fast miles were during the interval training.
The 2 mile warm up is all downhill so get run quite fast. The intervals consisted of a 0.53 mile lap (somewhat longer than 800m) with half that as an active recovery at faster than easy pace. A couple of the intervals had the full lap for recovery and in total there were 6 fast laps run at around 6:45-:6:50 a mile. Total distance covered in intervals was over 5 miles and the average mile pace was around 7min a mile, all depending on exactly where the fast interval and slower recovery fell.

The tempo run followed then had a mix of speed of under 8min a mile but some of the distance is much slower on forest trails and hills.

My garmin gave an average pace of 7:59 a mile but it's distance is always well short of the true running distance on the twisty course. I measured the true distance on sportrouteplanner.com which was about 0.4 miles longer, and I have done this course enough times to know the garmin was short of that. My smartphone got closer and was only 0.2mile short.

With the true distance I recalculated the average mile lap times.

 

[The Darkness]

'Advanced Marathoning' by Pfitzinger turned up last night. I like the introduction, so will probably base my training on one of their plans. Seems to come highly recommended.

 

[firstborn]

Sorry for any confusion. Yes, the fast miles were during the interval training.
The 2 mile warm up is all downhill so get run quite fast. The intervals consisted of a 0.53 mile lap (somewhat longer than 800m) with half that as an active recovery at faster than easy pace. A couple of the intervals had the full lap for recovery and in total there were 6 fast laps run at around 6:45-:6:50 a mile. Total distance covered in intervals was over 5 miles and the average mile pace was around 7min a mile, all depending on exactly where the fast interval and slower recovery fell.

The tempo run followed then had a mix of speed of under 8min a mile but some of the distance is much slower on forest trails and hills.

My garmin gave an average pace of 7:59 a mile but it's distance is always well short of the true running distance on the twisty course. I measured the true distance on sportrouteplanner.com which was about 0.4 miles longer, and I have done this course enough times to know the garmin was short of that. My smartphone got closer and was only 0.2mile short.

With the true distance I recalculated the average mile lap times.

Two comments:

1. Post the data from your Garmin
2. Then buy a new Garmin

 

[firstborn]

'Advanced Marathoning' by Pfitzinger turned up last night. I like the introduction, so will probably base my training on one of their plans. Seems to come highly recommended.

It is indeed a good read.

 

[D.P.]

Two comments:

1. Post the data from your Garmin
2. Then buy a new Garmin

1:
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/921079974
Intervals Splits over 0.53 miles
Absolute time , Garmin Average mile pace
3:35, 6:59
3:33, 6:55
3:32, 6:42
3:33, 6:52
3:32, 6:56
3:28, 6:42

If you really take the time to measure the distance it is 2.2 miles to start of interval lap around lake. Each lap is 0.53m, in total I went around the lake 12 times. There is a 1.75 mile out and back over hilly forest trails and then road, returning to the lake, and then 2.3 mile return home up hill.


2: Why, my Garmin 610 is only a few months old and works fine. My HR monitor though is a different matter, as can be see it stops communicating.

 

[Itchytrigg]

Some good discussions going on here last week, shall have to look up some of these books

Back from the US, managed to get some running in each day but at least 2 of those days were much slower as was running with colleagues and they were more tours of the city than training but still managed 25 miles over 5 days.

Jet lag's killed my hopes of getting out early this morning so will have to try my long run this afternoon. Next week will all be about getting back on plan, 3 weeks today till 1/2 race day.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Back from the US, managed to get some running in each day but at least 2 of those days were much slower as was running with colleagues and they were more tours of the city than training but still managed 25 miles over 5 days.

Jet lag's killed my hopes of getting out early this morning so will have to try my long run this afternoon. Next week will all be about getting back on plan, 3 weeks today till 1/2 race day.

I don't really know much about the most scientific and efficient way of training but sometimes I think just getting out there and going for the run even if it's not quite ideal in terms of pacing is good for you. I go running with a mate from work most weeks and although it feels pretty slow for me it's good for catching up and maybe running at an enforced slower pace sometimes is good to mix up the training. Good luck with the rest of your training up to the half in three weeks.

It's a week until the Thames Half marathon so I've probably got just two more runs to go - probably about five miles tomorrow and maybe five km on Thursday with my mate. I did Parkrun again yesterday though and knocked 27 seconds off my PB so I'm down to 20:16 but that might be the last PB for a while as the course tends to get pretty wet and slippery in winter. Under 20 minutes feels like it might be in sight though as it wasn't a perfect run yesterday by any stretch.

 

[D.P.]

I don't really know much about the most scientific and efficient way of training but sometimes I think just getting out there and going for the run even if it's not quite ideal in terms of pacing is good for you. I go running with a mate from work most weeks and although it feels pretty slow for me it's good for catching up and maybe running at an enforced slower pace sometimes is good to mix up the training. Good luck with the rest of your training up to the half in three weeks.

It's a week until the Thames Half marathon so I've probably got just two more runs to go - probably about five miles tomorrow and maybe five km on Thursday with my mate. I did Parkrun again yesterday though and knocked 27 seconds off my PB so I'm down to 20:16 but that might be the last PB for a while as the course tends to get pretty wet and slippery in winter. Under 20 minutes feels like it might be in sight though as it wasn't a perfect run yesterday by any stretch.

Definitely nothing wrong with some slow runs, absolute worst case it is a waste of time but that is unlikely. Conversely, going for a run too fast can leave you overly tired disrupting future training, risk injury etc. I'm prone to the latter, going too fast on an easy day and then being too tired for a key work out like intervals.

Ultimately a variety of different running speeds and distances gives variety which prevents overtraining and can maximize improvements, so no, slow runs are great.

 

[Buckster]

I find a recovery run day after efforts helps

but even if only 3 miles like this week - every metre of that was quite sore, but I felt all good when training Thursday !

first race in 12 months yesterday ! 5.3mile XC - first main one of the season

I'd forgotten how hard work hills are ! 157m total in elevation gain - 3 mins slower than last year though @ 42 mins

 

[Itchytrigg]

I have no choice to agree on the recovery/easy runs now. I knew time was against me so was never going to get in 1hr45-2hr today, so instead I said "lets see how long I can last at race pace". I figured my race pace if I want 1hr40 is about 7:38/mi. I did 10.5 miles averaging at 7:23 Was an uphill segment near the middle where I thought I was going to have to back off but so please I managed that and gives me great hope I can get that time in come race day.

Will not be putting that kind of pace in for that long in my remaining training sessions, and I think this week's given me a good idea of what to strive for during that last week before the race.

 

[Fuggan]

'Advanced Marathoning' by Pfitzinger turned up last night. I like the introduction, so will probably base my training on one of their plans. Seems to come highly recommended.

Just started reading this last night as well weirdly enough. Which plan are you thinking of going with?