Platypus' Beginners Guide to Running

[D.P.]

Latest updates.
Last Friday I planned an easy low speed long run of 18m in order not to over exert before the key/peak week. However, it hurt a surprising amount, way more than the 20.5 the week before at a much higher speed. At mile 15 I was running about 30 seconds a mile slower but was wondering if I could keep going. I decided to test myself and instead of giving up I started running faster. To my surprise I could run sub 8min mile in the same discomfort as 9:10 miles, in fact in some sense they felt better and I had good reason at least to have sore legs. Still, I listened to my body and after 2 fast miles slowed back down to over 9 min mile for 0.5m and then stopped running and walked back home the last half, saving my legs.


Saturday was rest day, felt OK and drank loads of beer in the rain.


Sunday I did 8.5m on very hilly and muddy forest trails followed by another 8 miles of hiking.


I was worried about my medium long run (MLR) today but woke up in good shape. This is peak week before tapering and I planned on 16 mile MLR. The cold morning gave way to fast laps and I was doing around 8:30 the whole way, most of them pretty effortless. Hills at the end were easier than expected which is a good sign.



2h:11 for the 16 miles and 850ft climb, 8:11 average pace, feeling great. In contrast my Friday LSD was 17.5 miles in 2h:34m @ 8:48 min/mile.

 

[D.P.]

'Advanced Marathoning' by Pfitzinger turned up last night. I like the introduction, so will probably base my training on one of their plans. Seems to come highly recommended.

Just started reading this last night as well weirdly enough. Which plan are you thinking of going with?

I also enjoyed reading it, the plan is very similar to Daniels but the book is actually a bit better, more explanation.

What I preferred about Daniels is that a lot of the LRs have speed or marathon specific segments, and you get more > 20mile runs. Daniels seems to be a fan of training at race pace to get a feel for that. Daniels also does speed work early int he aim to get VO2max and aerobic fitness up, with the plan becoming more dominated by endurance work, with speed work within LRs later on. Pfitiznger has a longer base building like period gaining endurance earlier, and then adds more and more speed work but the LRs stay at a slow pace. There is logic in both approaches but personally I like the idea of gradually getting more marathon focused with more runs that approximate a marathon better. There is a big difference running 20miles at 60 seconds slower than goal pace, vs 23 miles with 12 at goal pace.

Its worth reading both IMO.

 

[The Darkness]

Just started reading this last night as well weirdly enough. Which plan are you thinking of going with?

I'll be doing the 'up to 55 mile' 18 week plan. I'm returning from knee problems at the moment and currently doing about 20m/week, so I will need to increase my mileage over the next couple of months as I believe week one is 33 miles on that plan.

Which one are you going for?

 

[Hank_Marvin]

First half Marathon coming up 22nd Nov which I'm looking forward to.

Done my first 10k race at end of Aug in 50:42, since then I've done that in 49:42 and I done 15k last sunday in 1:17.32.

I'm just doing 5/10k midweek fast and then on sundays i'm building up my distance, I'll stick at 15k for a couple more weeks, then do a 20k once or twice then drop back to 15k and a relaxed week before race day. Plus footy once and week and 30mpw cycling.

Should see me do it in around 1h:45.

 

[The Darkness]

First half Marathon coming up 22nd Nov which I'm looking forward to.

Done my first 10k race at end of Aug in 50:42, since then I've done that in 49:42 and I done 15k last sunday in 1:17.32.

I'm just doing 5/10k midweek fast and then on sundays i'm building up my distance, I'll stick at 15k for a couple more weeks, then do a 20k once or twice then drop back to 15k and a relaxed week before race day. Plus footy once and week and 30mpw cycling.

Should see me do it in around 1h:45.

Sounds like an excellent plan and you are making real progress. My only minor suggestion is if you can take your 20K long runs up to half marathon distance (which is hardly any further) you can remove any potential worries about not being able to do the distance before race day. This isnt recommended for full marathons because the exertion of training full marathon distance will compromise race day performance, but I would think for a half it wont be a problem.

Good luck with the training.

D

 

[Hank_Marvin]

Yeah I could do that i'm sure. Would give me a nice target to beat on race day.

Thank you

 

[D.P.]

I agree with the Darkness, lots of the Half marathon plans I looked at actually had runs beyond the 13.1 miles to build endurance, but leave a few weeks before the race to taper and fully recover from the long runs.

 

[Hank_Marvin]

yeah I dismissed all plans they all wanted a ridiculous weekly mileage, I don't have the time for all that. But i'm confident with the limited mileage I do that fits in with my schedule and also keeps me fit, (legs, shins etc), will enable me to complete the set distance nicely. I do know to increase times I probably would have to put more time in but we'll see or just pushing harder, still trying to work on my pacing, on 10k race day I took it too easy.

 

[PermaBanned]

I came across a book the other day called Run Less, Run Faster. Haven't read it but it seems promising for the sort of training you're talking about. Seems the key principle is to only have three runs a week, but supplement them with a couple of cross training sessions in cycling or swimming.

 

[D.P.]

I came across a book the other day called Run Less, Run Faster. Haven't read it but it seems promising for the sort of training you're talking about. Seems the key principle is to only have three runs a week, but supplement them with a couple of cross training sessions in cycling or swimming.

Edit: got a bit confused with another plan (80/20) and edited for clarificatio.
I quickly read it a few months ago. I will definitely try this in a future marathon cycle, either to reduce training monotony or as training for a half iron man.

However, it is important to note it doesn't really prescribe less training time, you just substitute running for other cardiovascular work like swimming. I felt it didn't give anywhere near enough guidance about what CV work to do, how that CV work should be done, etc. Doing a long bike ride the day before a long hard run is a much harder work out and training scheme than simply doing 5-8 miles easy pace and then a long run next day.

It is also quite advanced and really require you to be fairly experienced with a decent running base. The concept is you have 3 very hard days (Tempo, intervals, LR with plenty of speed work within the LR, e.g. 22 miles with 12 at race pace or even faster). The workouts are so hard you can't really do a good run the next day and so the extra recovery time is needed and an hour in a pool is substituted for the easy run of most plans. When I read it it was clear that I didn't have the fitness or experience to do such hard work out or know what pace 85% of VO2MAx is, or Lactate threshold + 10 seconds, Goal Pace - 20 etc. It doesn't help you figure that stuff out too well except some generalized references to 5k or 10K pace etc. It Also has a tempo run as a key run when the science behind that is relatively poor.

Coincidentally, Daniels only indicates 2 key runs per week (interval and LR with speed work), with the other days left up to you but some suggested runs. You can swap the easier aerobic runs for cross over training. Most people of course do the miles.

 

[Fuggan]

I'll be doing the 'up to 55 mile' 18 week plan. I'm returning from knee problems at the moment and currently doing about 20m/week, so I will need to increase my mileage over the next couple of months as I believe week one is 33 miles on that plan.

Which one are you going for?

Yeah was looking at that one but am doing around 40mpw at the moment with a view to slowly knock it up to 50 before the new year. Plan is scheduled to start on 25th Jan so might go for one higher up! Depends how much of a social life I want really, haha.

 

[GiraffePencils]

I've wanted to up my distance to doing a decent marathon, but I really struggle to find the time.
mainly due to being told to "eat 2 hours before a long run" I can't go out really early and basically ruin my family time at the weekend.

Is eating before essential for training? could carb gels be a better plan if I wanted to get up early and get some distance done?

 

[The Darkness]

I've wanted to up my distance to doing a decent marathon, but I really struggle to find the time.
mainly due to being told to "eat 2 hours before a long run" I can't go out really early and basically ruin my family time at the weekend.

Is eating before essential for training? could carb gels be a better plan if I wanted to get up early and get some distance done?

I needed to eat before my long runs yes. And take gels too. I don't think there is a way round long runs taking up half of one of your weekend days really. One very understanding partner required....

 

[D.P.]

I've wanted to up my distance to doing a decent marathon, but I really struggle to find the time.
mainly due to being told to "eat 2 hours before a long run" I can't go out really early and basically ruin my family time at the weekend.

Is eating before essential for training? could carb gels be a better plan if I wanted to get up early and get some distance done?

I don't eat 2 hour before my LR, I try to get up early and eat a little carbs first thing (slice of bread or a muffin, or small bowl of cereals). For most of my early LRs that were under 16 miles I often didn't bother, drank some water and waited to pee again.

Some people wont eat at all before their LR, in fact some people swear it is good raining to force your body to use fat rather than glycogen. Eating a big pile of carbs the night before is likely more helpful in any case.


Some of the bigger issues would be that it is really not fun to go out drinking for the night and then wake up at 6am for a 20 mile LR. I'm definitely drinking less, which can only be a good thing.

And yes, loosing 3 hours of your weekend to the family is tough, but waking up early helps. If you can get out the door at 6:30 then even your longest long runs should have you home at 9:30. Quick shower and have a big breakfast. most of the training will have your long runs much shorter than 3 hours.

 

[D.P.]

1:
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/921079974
Intervals Splits over 0.53 miles
Absolute time , Garmin Average mile pace
3:35, 6:59
3:33, 6:55
3:32, 6:42
3:33, 6:52
3:32, 6:56
3:28, 6:42

If you really take the time to measure the distance it is 2.2 miles to start of interval lap around lake. Each lap is 0.53m, in total I went around the lake 12 times. There is a 1.75 mile out and back over hilly forest trails and then road, returning to the lake, and then 2.3 mile return home up hill.


2: Why, my Garmin 610 is only a few months old and works fine. My HR monitor though is a different matter, as can be see it stops communicating.

This week I smashed these results out the window.
I added a 7th interval lap (each 1 is 0.53 miles) and these were my times: 3:35,3:32,3:28,3:30,3:26,3:24,3:21

My fastest ever lap before this was around 3m:28s, and rarely would I get a single lap in under 3:32, so I repeatedly destroyed my previous best results even on a 7th lap!

The extra lap plus a slight detour home took the running distance to exactly 13.1 miles. I felt super fast and pushed a solid temp run with some sub 8 minute miles at the end climbing up hill back home.

Total time, 1H:39:09 @ 7:34 a mile, so as I said before, my race result is not at all initiative of my current fitness.

Given a proper HM race without forest trails etc., good pacing (e.g. not interval training but even effort) I reckon 1:35 is realistic.


I couldn't have dreamed of running such alps a few months back. I started intervals doing 3 or 4 laps with the aim to keep each one under 4 minutes, and I basically walked between laps but now I can do 7 laps at 3:30 while my recovery pace between laps is around 8m:20 a mile. originally even when going so much slower and almost walking the recovery my Heart rate wouldn't drop below 170, now it shoots down to low 160s when my recovery jog is at race pace.

I'm very happy with my progression and ecstatic with today's results. Who know how I will race in the marathon but today's run indicates a sub 3:30 but no way will I be that aggressive, thinking 3:42-3:45. I don't want to crash and burn.

 

[Indigo]

Physios report came in this morning and I have a strain in my hamstring (left side) which is a possible tear, build up of collagen and some scar tissue as well. A few issues on my left hand side that need addressing and need to activate my glutes more as the hamstrings are taking more load than they should be.

Good thing is that it should only take 2-3 sessions and some excercises to do in my own time at home and I should be able to build it back up to where it should be and he thinks it could even possibly be stronger than it ever was.

Taking yet another week off running but I'll be heading down to the local swimming pool a few times instead to keep fitness up and pass the time.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Sorry to hear about the strain but I hope it doesn't take too long to fix and that the physio is right and it will be at least as good as it ever was.

 

[D.P.]

Physios report came in this morning and I have a strain in my hamstring (left side) which is a possible tear, build up of collagen and some scar tissue as well. A few issues on my left hand side that need addressing and need to activate my glutes more as the hamstrings are taking more load than they should be.

Good thing is that it should only take 2-3 sessions and some excercises to do in my own time at home and I should be able to build it back up to where it should be and he thinks it could even possibly be stronger than it ever was.

Taking yet another week off running but I'll be heading down to the local swimming pool a few times instead to keep fitness up and pass the time.

Resist the urge to get training quicker than suggested. I would maybe continue to drop some runs in favor of swimming for some time to be on the safe side.

 

[Indigo]

Sorry to hear about the strain but I hope it doesn't take too long to fix and that the physio is right and it will be at least as good as it ever was.

Cheers, fingers crossed. If it was always going to happen I'm glad it's now as I don't have any big races planned other than cross country now for the rest of the year, will build up slowly ready to start marathon training again in Janurary.

Resist the urge to get training quicker than suggested. I would maybe continue to drop some runs in favor of swimming for some time to be on the safe side.

Will do, I emailed him today and he hasn't said I can't run, just don't do anything involving heavy loading / high impact. That said I'll be swimming now until I see him again on Tuesday next week and see what his advice is then. Said we can discuss any exercise / alternatives then.

 

[D.P.]

6 easy miles today, hopefully recovering in time for a key training work out tomorrow - 22 miles with 10-12 at marathon pace.