Platypus' Beginners Guide to Running

DP - remind me what race you are training for?


Richmond, Virginia Marathon (Nov 14th) as my first.
Currently research what to do next year, potentially Pittsburgh in the spring. Then I will see where my fitness, running times, life and motivation levels are like. If I keep making rapid progress then I might think about aiming to do a Boston Qualifying run in 2017, alternatively if I am loosing motivation I might start training for a half Iron man and see if that is at all realistic.

Yesterday evening I noticed a very slight tightness/ache in my hamstrings and I remembered the first mile of yesterday run had an odd slight pain behind my left knee. I had slowed down a bit and it soon disappeared and totally forgot about it for the rest of the run and the rest of the day until I went to bed. Got a bit worried and since today is supposedly a very easy day anyway I went to the gym and tried out an exercise bike for the first time in 10 years. Very confusing, I only did 2.25 miles in 25 minutes but climbed 3800ft, there didn't seem to be a way to increase resistance but simulate going on the flat. I then did a couple of miles on the tread mill at very slow pace and my hamstrings felt fine. Went to do some weights and I thought I would check out the leg curl machine. My right leg I could curl a very light weight but my left leg just didn't feel right even on the lightest setting so i didn't do anyway lower body exercises and just did some free weights. Legs feel fine but I am going to give some massages and in general keep an eye on it.

A lot of my runs have some hills and it is likely that I have been developing quad muscles much faster than hamstrings so there is more of an imbalance. In the future I think I will need to start regularly using the leg curl machine to build hamstring strength.
Of course I could be completely wrong here, I am inexperienced with such injuries.
 
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I started running at the beginning of the year after a health check at the Docs end of last year (said i needed to lose the weight!).

I've done various 10ks and local parkruns over the year and did the Robin Hood HM in Sept in 2:00:41 (:mad: wanted sub 2!). Lost about 2 stone and feeling great. Run 3 times a week, Tues, Thurs and long run Sunday. Deffo got the running bug!

I've put in for the Manchester Full next April (didn't get in London Ballot) so will start the training for that in December...once i've found a decent plan to follow....anyone else doing it?

Glad to hear you've caught the bug and congratulations on the weight loss too. And that's still a good effort for the HM, don't get too caught up on those 42 seconds, they'll get knocked off and then some I imagine as you progress.

I'll be running the Manchester Marathon next year, waiting on payday and then signing up before the slight price increase. Ran it last year and it's a very good course, nice and flat, easy to get to from the City Centre and a few pubs near by for the after run pint too. :)

And if I could offer just one piece of advice now it's to by all means start in December but think about increasing your long run in distance/time before then so you already have a good base to start from.
 
Went to the physio this afternoon, gave me the all clear to start again and build my routine back to where I want it to be. Just need to be mindful of both distance and pace at first and don't go out all guns blazing, so 3 runs this week I think, then 4 and then 5 again. He gave me four exercises for making my hamstring stronger and said to update him over the weekend once I've ran a few times to let him know how it's felt.

Fingers crossed I should be ok for my XC race in just under 3 weeks and then be in good shape to build my long run back up again for 15 miles ready for marathon training to start again in December.
 
And if I could offer just one piece of advice now it's to by all means start in December but think about increasing your long run in distance/time before then so you already have a good base to start from.

Cheers! Currently running 10 miles on my Sunday slow long runs, slowly stepping that up. Struggling with what plan to choose though, there's so many different marathon plans. Any suggestions?
 
Cheers! Currently running 10 miles on my Sunday slow long runs, slowly stepping that up. Struggling with what plan to choose though, there's so many different marathon plans. Any suggestions?

I Had a load of difficulty choosing a plan because most begginer plans assumed you weren't that dedicated and offered minimal millage, no speed work, minimal base building but worst still a very fast ramp up in long run distance but still seed to leave you not very well prepared.

A lot will depend on what your goals are, how many days a week you want to run, how intensive you want to train. Saying that, you can't train to a specifics time goal or instantly run a lot of miles or do hard speed work. You have to train at your current fitness, and if you want to train more intensive then you aged to slowly build up the difficulty and miles.

Many begginers go for a hal Higdon plan which are kind of like old classics. However, I think the begginer plans don't offer good preparation and the ramp up is too hard. The intermediate plans look better to me.

Galloway is popular for people who only want to finish even of that means walking a lot of it, e.g the over 5 hour runners.


I started using a hal Higodn intermediate plan but did a longer period of base building, shifting to 5 days a week running and more millage. I then read all the major marathon training plans and kind of incorporated key workouts and ideas from different plans based on what I felt like well grounded evidence-based science. This might be a big mistake, we'll see.

http://fellrnr.com/wiki/Main_Page
Feller has loads of great resources, points out the science, and compares plans
 
Went to the physio this afternoon, gave me the all clear to start again and build my routine back to where I want it to be. Just need to be mindful of both distance and pace at first and don't go out all guns blazing, so 3 runs this week I think, then 4 and then 5 again. He gave me four exercises for making my hamstring stronger and said to update him over the weekend once I've ran a few times to let him know how it's felt.

Fingers crossed I should be ok for my XC race in just under 3 weeks and then be in good shape to build my long run back up again for 15 miles ready for marathon training to start again in December.

Very happy for you IG, soooo frustrating not being able to train due to injury. I have been treating my knee carefully for last month or so, and yesterday did a tempo 8 miler @ 7:07/mile and it felt really good. I am amazed at how much if affects my overall mood too.
 
Another fantastic run this.
When I did my 13.1 miles in 1H:39:19 last week I wasn't really aiming for the fastest time but the hardest intervals and I knew I could go faster.
I didn't know what kind of training to do today, my hamstrings are giving me a little worry but I still wanted intervals so I set out to do soemthign similar to last week but less intense. It was cold and my 2 mile warm up was about 1 minute faster than last week, not a good idea but at the same time I wanted to be warm for my first interval. I ran my intervals slightly less aggressively than last week, still good times and very consistent at around 3:30 a lap which until recently would be near personal records. My recovery half laps I ran a little fast than last time, so basically the effort level was more even and I hoped less intensive. I then did 3 miles of tempo work but made a conscious effort to do them slightly faster than last week, which is where I hoped I would pick up a little more time. The last 2 miles hope I then pushed it a little harder than last week but still not 100%.

The end result with a more even effort and a a slightly more conscious effort to go faster- 13.1 miles in 1H:36M:35S, 7:22 per mile.

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/934050644

Definitely feel vindicated for all my hard work.
Will likely take tomorrow as a complete rest day rather than an easy 6 miler.

Again, that half marathon time is under relatively tough conditions, quite a lot of climbing (400ft), some forest trails with roots and rocks, busy streets to cross a couple of time, and of course 7x0.53mile intervals is not conductive to even pace and effort!.
 
Thanks D.P. very useful.

Soemthing like this:
http://halhigdon.com/training/51139/Marathon-Intermediate-1-Training-Program

Might be what you are looking for. Hal Higdon has a load of plans that vary very slightly so you can bump yourself up and down. Their main criticism is they are quite traditional and vanilla. For a beginner that is not too concerned with getting best possible time then these are fine and a very popular starting point.

What I started doing was reading up on things like intervals training and realized how important that was so started adding that to my training where as most beginner plans don't. Advanced plans have lots of technical details about paces and heart rates which is not easily digestible for beginners. But really, basic intervals are really easy Run 400m or 800m as fast as you can, and then walk jog for half that time, repeat. Start with 3 repetitions and slowly build up and get faster. Also accelerate and decelerate slowly, so start speeding up before the beginning of the lap. Take a good break the day after (or have a shorter easier run). Ignore pace, mile times, heart rates, VO2MAx, just run hard, slow down, run hard, slow down. It is that alternation that stimulates big changes to your cardiovascular system. No need to go to a running track, just a reasonable level path with safe footing.
 
Very happy for you IG, soooo frustrating not being able to train due to injury. I have been treating my knee carefully for last month or so, and yesterday did a tempo 8 miler @ 7:07/mile and it felt really good. I am amazed at how much if affects my overall mood too.

Cheers :)

I know what you mean about mood, always feel better after a run and always in a generally more consistent mood when I'm training consistently too. I ran just 5 miles last night at 7:30/mile pace and didn't feel no where near as much discomfort as the week before, there was still a little there and I've got more DOMS than usual today but that's to be expected.

On the exercises today (resistence bands came this afternoon thankfully) and then I'll be running another 4-5 miles tomorrow.
 
Cheers :)

I know what you mean about mood, always feel better after a run and always in a generally more consistent mood when I'm training consistently too. I ran just 5 miles last night at 7:30/mile pace and didn't feel no where near as much discomfort as the week before, there was still a little there and I've got more DOMS than usual today but that's to be expected.

On the exercises today (resistence bands came this afternoon thankfully) and then I'll be running another 4-5 miles tomorrow.

Glad you are running OK
I purchased a hard foam roller and "The Stick" to do some massaging.
 
Another fantastic run this.
When I did my 13.1 miles in 1H:39:19 last week I wasn't really aiming for the fastest time but the hardest intervals and I knew I could go faster.
I didn't know what kind of training to do today, my hamstrings are giving me a little worry but I still wanted intervals so I set out to do soemthign similar to last week but less intense. It was cold and my 2 mile warm up was about 1 minute faster than last week, not a good idea but at the same time I wanted to be warm for my first interval. I ran my intervals slightly less aggressively than last week, still good times and very consistent at around 3:30 a lap which until recently would be near personal records. My recovery half laps I ran a little fast than last time, so basically the effort level was more even and I hoped less intensive. I then did 3 miles of tempo work but made a conscious effort to do them slightly faster than last week, which is where I hoped I would pick up a little more time. The last 2 miles hope I then pushed it a little harder than last week but still not 100%.

The end result with a more even effort and a a slightly more conscious effort to go faster- 13.1 miles in 1H:36M:35S, 7:22 per mile.

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/934050644

Definitely feel vindicated for all my hard work.
Will likely take tomorrow as a complete rest day rather than an easy 6 miler.

Again, that half marathon time is under relatively tough conditions, quite a lot of climbing (400ft), some forest trails with roots and rocks, busy streets to cross a couple of time, and of course 7x0.53mile intervals is not conductive to even pace and effort!.

Fantastic to see it all coming together beautifully and, like you say, really vindicating the approach.
 
I've been looking at this plan on the cool running site.

I like it as it gets you doing the full distance in training. I know its a no no for some, but that sort of fits with my way of thinking.
 
I've been looking at this plan on the cool running site.

I like it as it gets you doing the full distance in training. I know its a no no for some, but that sort of fits with my way of thinking.

TBH, I don't like the plan. The ramp up in long run millage is way too fast and the weekly millage quite low too support those long runs, thus the injury risk must be quite high.

The distance of the longest long runs is a controversial subject but there is extremely good reasons why most plans cap out around the 20 mile mark with only some newer plans going for 22/23 miles (even then typically only 1 or 2 times). It is very naive to think that to train for a marathon you need to run the Marathon distance, you don't need to. In theory it is a great idea, hell in theory it would be great to run 30-35 miles to build endurance, just like half marathon runners will train to 18-20 miles for their 13 mile race. In reality such long runs have a high injury risk and cause a huge amount of fatigue in joints, muscles, ligament, tendons and will require a huge amount of recovery time to the point you wont be able to do any real training the following week or 2. Therefore, they really just aren't an efficient form of training for the most part. You are much better off doing a hard week of training and a 18-20 mile run than a 24 mile run with a week sitting on the couch or doing 'recovery' runs.

One of the most popular marathon training plans (Hansons) caps the long run at 16 miles. I don't personally believe that is optimal but it certainly proves that you need not go any furthers to get very fast marathon times. The science is also fairly clear that the benefit of long slow runs starts to occur after 90 minutes of running but disappears after about 3 hours because the slow-twitch muscles will be too fatigued and the running dynamics changes a lot (your muscles start invoking fast-twitch muscles in support for example). 20 miles is about 3 hours for many people, which is no coincidence. This difference also explains why people recover form their 20 mile long runs relatively quickly but the full marathon can takes weeks to months to fully heal the muscles and joints. A neighbor is not running the local marathon this year because he is still injured form running it last year!


There are much more important training patterns to look for: weekly millage, total plan millage, intervals, tempo runs, fast finish long runs, rest, cross-training, race practice, pacing, heart rate zone training, etc. I think an 18 mile long run with 10 miles run at slightly slower than goal pace is a much more beneficial training run than doing 26 miles at 90-120 second a mile slower than goal pace for example.

I would do a lot of reading and research before committing to a plan purely on the basis of the long run.



As for the rest of the plan, it looks like a lot of the weekly millage is from very short runs that don't tend to induce many beneficial adaptions, which is the main point of training. I don;y understand those 3mile runs on Saturday the day before the long run. Typically such a short run is used for recovery after a long run, and in themselves are controversial (Some say they are useless, some say they inhibit recovery, some say they make you feel good and are harmless). But in this plan Friday was a rest day so why such an easy run on Saturday? I think Hal Hidon 8-10 mile with some goal pace speed work the day before the long run is going to help more, or simply do the long run on Saturday after having the break Friday.

Similarly, the longest run apart form the long run is 10 miles, which is done once. I'm a big fan of the medium long run, you get many of the same benefits as a long run but even less stress. As I said above, may of the critical adaptions only occur after 90 minutes of running, which wont happen in a 10 mile run.

EDI: I don't mean to say don't choose a plan that has a long run over 20miles. I actually believe you SHOULD run over 20 miles based on the scientific evidence, likewise I think you should have (occasional) long runs with speed work comparable to marathon pace. I just think you shouldn't make a naive decisions that to race a marathon is makes sense to run 26 miels, that is way to simple. Make that decision yourself based on all the evidence out there and all the different training plans. You certainly don't need to so it shouldn't' be a priority IMO.
 
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The logic that to do an activity X means you should repeatedly train doing X is actually very sound and is widely supported by science, known as the Principle of Specificity. The problem is fatigue and injury risk come to play and so you have to compromise. Marathon training is all about compromising, you can only do so much training, even if you had all day every day to dedicate.

I think you would be well served looking at one of the standard plans like I did, but if you wan to then keep reading up on the different plans, ideas and research to adapt your plan as you progress rather than do minimal research and quickly jump ona plan without being flexible.

From my reading it became clear I didn't want to do a beginners plan with a single 20 miler. I wanted about 3 20+ mile runs, and I decided I wanted a single 22 mile run with speed work as key work out, what I did last Friday. You don't find that in beginners plans but it is more common in advanced plans.

Moreover, the biggest issues with long runs can be mitigated by very slowly building up endurance, allowing joint, ligaments and muscles to adapt over time. My key long runs, ignoring recovery weeks, goes like this:

14.5,14.2,15.6,15.6,16.2,16.2,16.6,16.5,17.5,17.5,18,18.6,19,19.5,20.5,17.5,22.3, 21

I'm not claiming that is optimal or desirable or giving it any kind of recommendation. My only point is each long run progressed relatively slowly, I typically spent some time at the same distance, and I had a core base building period where I stuck to about 16 miles before ramping up to peak. The approximate 16 mile long runs in this base building period were done while increasing weekly mileage form 45 to 55 miles. Some people say that the long run should only be a certain percentage of the weekly miles, I don't know.
 
Went out for 3.3 miles yesterday, managed my splits in 7.14/7.05/7.09 for the first 3 miles and 7.18 for the last part.

Second run of the week (first time I've managed this in 3 weeks) and hamstring/glute feels like it's getting much better already, managed to feel close to comfortable running at pace again and didn't get overly tired considering how little I've been running recently.

Legs have felt ok today other than DOMS being more present than usual again (to be expected) so I'll go out again tomorrow for another 3-5 miles I think and then see how I feel.
 
Was reading a blog recently questioning the whole "pronation" thing. Was good reading.

https://roguerundown.wordpress.com/2014/05/07/the-myth-of-over-pronation/

Haven't done any running for over a year, and my exiting Mizunos were pretty shot. They were the stabalising kind for "over pronators", as recommended by some shop with a pressure map that I walked over a couple times. Shop has since closed down; we have no running shops in my city at all now :/

Anyway, picked up some Wave Rider 18s from t'internet. £60, not bad.

Have run about 10 miles in them now, and they feel just as comfortable as my stabilising shoes.

Really I'm less sure than ever that the motion of my foot ever needed "correcting". The WR18 are neutral, and running in them is giving me exactly the same problems I've had in all other running shoes (my left foot impacts the road flat, my right foot comes down nicely and painlessly).
 
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Have run about 10 miles in them now, and they feel just as comfortable as my stabilising shoes.

Really I'm less sure than ever that the motion of my foot ever needed "correcting". The WR18 are neutral, and running in them is giving me exactly the same problems I've had in all other running shoes (my left foot impacts the road flat, my right foot comes down nicely and painlessly).

Interesting blog so it'll be useful to find out how they get on. I'm not completely convinced on the idea that you can always be happier in shoes that don't attempt to manage pronation though, for some people I'd guess there's a placebo effect going on and it makes them feel more comfortable knowing that whatever issues (real or imagined) are being tackled. For what it's worth I've only had neutral shoes when fitted as I was told that my gait was fairly close to neutral so maybe that's just luck which means I've not had unnecessary stabilisation shoes pushed my way or maybe it's less of a problem with some stores (or locations) than others.

I don't want to take this in a medical direction as apart from the rules I simply don't know enough but did you explain your issues in the shop about one foot impacting flat and the other feeling ok? It may be that you'd be better with footbeds/insoles for one side or even different trainers on each foot depending on how bad it is? Assuming that wouldn't just exacerbate the problem. I don't know obviously and I'd defer to any experts but it might be worth the time and expense to do a more in-depth analysis than the 5 minutes or so you'll get from some running shops.
 
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