Platypus' Beginners Guide to Running

NoNameNoNumber said:
Any triathletes in the house?
I can consistently run 19 minute 5ks and 44 minute 10ks but off the bike I struggle to pick the pace up at all...
Last Saturday at Lanzarote 70.3 got off the bike feeling awesome, 2:53 for the 90k ride and started running fine but every time I tried to pick the pace up nothing happened :D

What kinda training do I need to incorporate into it all with my target being Copenhagen full ironman next august?
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Not really a triathlete but you probably biked too hard. And as Neilw pointed out, you liekly lack endurance if your 5K and 10K are accurate.

I don;t bike much and have only done a few bricks, but I had the opposite problem in not being able to run slow enough for an easy run.
 
NoNameNoNumber said:
I think I could push my 10k down a little if I tried harder... I seem to lose my way mentally lol... Maybe I need to find a sub40 runner to try and keep up with.

Exactly my point on the 70.3, it took me 2:02 to do the run. Legs felt OK still but I just couldn't get them to go any faster! Hot out here though mind. I set myself a sub 6hr target and when I knew a 2hr run would do it for me I guess I didn't have a mad urge to push too much more?
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In your run training, do you do any Lactate Threshold runs, 800m or 1 mile repeats? What is your longest LR ? For a 13.1 miler you should be able to push LRs out to 15-16 miles and have regular runs to 10 miles. Try doing a 10 mile run where you start easy but finish at goal pace, or faster.
 
Daaaavvveee said:
Yeah I can lunch for as long as is needed, just need to hit my 7.5hour work time.

Just finished for the week now on 24.5 miles. That's most likely my PB for it, will just try keeping it up to around that, just have to stay motivated to do it
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Give yourself a goal, e.g.a race. That is how I had to stay motivated initially.
 
neilw said:
Sounds like you've got used to running short and fast, you've probably got a strong cardial system, but your muscles can't keep up over the longer distance. I'd suggest adding more long slow runs to your training. Keeping your HR down to zone2-3 Half Marathons distance in the 1:50->2h region probably. It should feel easy, with is an odd feeling as you think this can't be doing me any good. My Wife is a 2hr Half marathon runner but maxes out at about 24mins on 5km
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OK great advice which should be easier to incorporate into what I'm doing currently. See if I go out for a run I will almost always run no further than 10-12k but try and push on for the duration with consistent splits. Gotta start looking at HR then.

D.P. said:
Not really a triathlete but you probably biked too hard. And as Neilw pointed out, you liekly lack endurance if your 5K and 10K are accurate.

I don;t bike much and have only done a few bricks, but I had the opposite problem in not being able to run slow enough for an easy run.
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Yeah those 5k/10k numbers are right, it does take me a k or two to get my running legs going and I seem to settle into a rhythm... It's just not quick enough though :D

D.P. said:
In your run training, do you do any Lactate Threshold runs, 800m or 1 mile repeats? What is your longest LR ? For a 13.1 miler you should be able to push LRs out to 15-16 miles and have regular runs to 10 miles. Try doing a 10 mile run where you start easy but finish at goal pace, or faster.
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I've never done any lactate threshold runs, I'll give that a google.
Longest training runs I've ever done are under 10 miles. Major faux pas by the looks of it?
 
A lacate threshold run is usually 4-6 miles at a pace between 10k and half-marathon, or what you could achive in 1hour at your absolute hardest/fastest. Typically you would 2-3 miles easy warm up, then the 4-6miles at Lactate Threshold, the 2-3 cool.down. To begin with you can try 3 miles at LT until you get used to it. No more than once a week, and not every week. You could also just alternate 1 week doing a lactate threshold run and the other doing intervals on a track.

Make sure that the volume of quality, high intensity runs is about 10-20% of your weekly volume. This gets difficult training for triathlon so most people will have a slightly higher ratio, which is likely fine. Since you will also do hard intervals on the bike,.some of the adaptations will be realized without the track workout, but the trackwork will improve running economy.



As for distance, it is absolutely not mandatory to cover the race didtanxe, this is especially true for the marathon and beyond. But for shorter distances it will absolutely help you either endurance and speed. For a half marathon distance you can definitely build up to be running further than 13miles without major difficulties. Long slow runs give you lots of useful adaptations such as increased blood capillaries, increased mitochondria, improved heart stroke volume and efficiency, stronger muscles, etc.
 
firstborn said:
1:22:58 for a half on Sunday - old age is catching up with me.
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Time to retire and take up knitting!:p

Now the cycling season is ending I'm easing back into the running. I've been neglecting it a bit since my disastrous marathon. Looking forward to the London Marathon ballot results although I think my chances are statistically insignificant.

Not really got any goals but I have got a free entry to a 10K race in November so something to motivate training slightly. PB is 37:01 so I could try for a sub-37.
 
firstborn said:
1:22:58 for a half on Sunday - old age is catching up with me.
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I'd be happy with 2:28 right now.

I've posted before but a wee bit of background.

Weighed 22St 6 in Jan...Lost a bit of weight by July and booked a half marathon for 30th October in Bradford. Training was fine until I had a chest infection for 6 weeks and now I'm just trying to get back to normal...how many runs would people advise?

I'm currently doing quick 7k runs 3 times a week then a 15k Saturday run (will increase distance week by week) but finding it really tough. Am I running too much mid week?

For the record I weigh 15St 6ish now, I can move the half to a 10k but I really don't want to.

My plan at the moment is to do a 18k run on Saturday and see how I feel...going to rest until then.
 
omnomnom said:
I'd be happy with 2:28 right now.

I've posted before but a wee bit of background.

Weighed 22St 6 in Jan...Lost a bit of weight by July and booked a half marathon for 30th October in Bradford. Training was fine until I had a chest infection for 6 weeks and now I'm just trying to get back to normal...how many runs would people advise?

I'm currently doing quick 7k runs 3 times a week then a 15k Saturday run (will increase distance week by week) but finding it really tough. Am I running too much mid week?

For the record I weigh 15St 6ish now, I can move the half to a 10k but I really don't want to.

My plan at the moment is to do a 18k run on Saturday and see how I feel...going to rest until then.
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Congratulations on the weight loss.
4 runs a week should be fine for most people but if you are having issues you definitely want to make sure you are recovering adequately or you risk injury. It takes sometimes for the muscles, bones, and ligaments to strengthen to accommodate the running (gaining CV fitness is much quicker than the muscular-skeletal strength). Just listen to your body, if you really really exhausted, legs stiff, any aches or pains then don't run - go swim or bike instead.

You say you are doing quick 7K runs, hopefully you are running all/most of your runs nice and slow. Running too fast will increase fatigue and recovery time, increase risks and wont yield a faster race time. You can also try varying the mid-week runs, so have the run before your long run to be a little shorter like 5K but make one of them a little longer. The shorter run will lead to better recovery before your weekend long run. Having one of your mid-week runs longer will improve fitness and endurance.



Also make pay attention to recovery. Hydrate quickly after the run (including salts, so a sports drink works well). Try to get some carbs and protein in quickly, porridge with a few buts works well for me. The sooner you start consuming the sooner your body will start repairing. Do some foam rolling and massaging in the evenings to help loosen stiff muscles. And get plenty of sleep.
 
Thanjs for the advice, appreciate it.

Big run finished...well I consider it big lol. 16km in 1 HR 44. Miles behind some of your times but my aim to do a half in under 2HR 30 is on and easily achievable. Felt fatigued but then I rat out of supplements at 12k ish so need to be better prepared.
 
omnomnom said:
Thanjs for the advice, appreciate it.

Big run finished...well I consider it big lol. 16km in 1 HR 44. Miles behind some of your times but my aim to do a half in under 2HR 30 is on and easily achievable. Felt fatigued but then I rat out of supplements at 12k ish so need to be better prepared.
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Don't worry about what others are doing, just enjoy it. Some people have been running a long, some people run a lot each week, some people are just genetically gifted.

I don't think you have to worry too.much about nutrition for a half marathon. Last time I didn't take anything or drink. Since. You should mostly been fine with the sports drinks at the aid stations, but a gel or 2 with you might help in an emergency.

The reason you got fatigued at the end probably wasn't nutrition, but the combination of pace and distance for which you are just not used to. Most people should be able to go at least 20miles at an easy pace without reaching glycogen depletion.

You will probably just have to accept that fatigued feeling for your first half marathon. If you keep training and sign up for a future half you will find it that much easier, can build more volume and have long runs that got beyond the 13miles. This just takes time. Running for 13 miles is something most of the population can't do so you are already proving to be in good physical shape and dedicated training. If it was easy then you wouldn't get tired and everyone could run such a distance.
 
Daaaavvveee said:
I went for a 10 mile run today, ended up doing 13.2, time for the half was 01:53:59 so really happy with that!

Got 2 weeks now until the next one :D
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Well done!

Remember to taper going in to tour goal race. No need for another long run. Cut the volume but don't slow down the runs, nothing too intense but a few strides or fartleks will help keep left turnover. Just remember there is nothing you can do in training that will make you significantly faster in the next 2 weeks, but you can definitely screw up your race by doing too much. In the days before the race getting plenty of sleep is your main goal, and save the beer for after the race!
 
D.P. said:
Well done!

Remember to taper going in to tour goal race. No need for another long run. Cut the volume but don't slow down the runs, nothing too intense but a few strides or fartleks will help keep left turnover. Just remember there is nothing you can do in training that will make you significantly faster in the next 2 weeks, but you can definitely screw up your race by doing too much. In the days before the race getting plenty of sleep is your main goal, and save the beer for after the race!
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I am planning on cutting the runs down to 5-6 miles not over the next week, then maybe a couple of 5k runs the actual week of the race.
I had plenty of beer and a full english this morning, so I am hoping without those before my race i may improve the speed a bit.

What advise would you give on the food on the run up to the run?
I had some SIS Gels which i took with me today and had one every 20 minutes. They seemed to help, even if it was just a placebo affect.
 
Eat light the days before, plenty of carbs and a little protein. Day before I try to eat my main meal at lunch in hopes I can empty myself before the race and avoid the runners diarrhea!
On race day try to eat breakfast 2-3hrs before hand so eit is digest and blood sugar is high. Hydrate and pee a lot to reach an equilibrium. A sports/electrolytes drinks helps. Simple carbs, banana and bread+jam etc. 5-10minutes before the start I have a gel.
Having a gel every 20minutes is probably excessive for a half but if you have trained.like that then don't change it. Every 40 minutes should suffice. Remember you need to drink water with a gel to stay hydrated. Depending g on the type of sugars in the gel you might need more or less water to stay isotonic. Cheaper gels use plain sugar which is amount the worst.
 
D.P. said:
Eat light the days before, plenty of carbs and a little protein. Day before I try to eat my main meal at lunch in hopes I can empty myself before the race and avoid the runners diarrhea!
On race day try to eat breakfast 2-3hrs before hand so eit is digest and blood sugar is high. Hydrate and pee a lot to reach an equilibrium. A sports/electrolytes drinks helps. Simple carbs, banana and bread+jam etc. 5-10minutes before the start I have a gel.
Having a gel every 20minutes is probably excessive for a half but if you have trained.like that then don't change it. Every 40 minutes should suffice. Remember you need to drink water with a gel to stay hydrated. Depending g on the type of sugars in the gel you might need more or less water to stay isotonic. Cheaper gels use plain sugar which is amount the worst.
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Thanks for that, the gels i am using are https://www.amazon.co.uk/Science-Sp...F8&qid=1505644458&sr=8-2&keywords=sis+running. I think you can do these without water.
 
Daaaavvveee said:
Thanks for that, the gels i am using are https://www.amazon.co.uk/Science-Sp...F8&qid=1505644458&sr=8-2&keywords=sis+running. I think you can do these without water.
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They do say they are isotonic so you can have them without water, I prefer to have some water afterwords if possible but it's not the end of the world if you don't. Then again I used the Hi5 gels that omnomnom linked to in exactly the same way, for what it's worth I think the Hi5 gels taste a bit better but the SiS gels contain more in each sachet - there's probably differences in the nutrition profiles but it's not significant enough for me to worry about one over another for my level of running.

As D.P. says a gel every 20 minutes is probably what the manufacturer recommends but might be slightly overkill for most runners. If that's what you are used to then don't try changing it before your next race but like many things in running it's can be worth experimenting to find out what works best for you. I typically aim to take a gel every 9-10km for a half or longer but I'll vary that slightly according to terrain and how I'm feeling - do what you feel works for you though.
 
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