Platypus' Beginners Guide to Running

[D.P.]

Yeah, i find that fairly accurate for me. When pushing myself to the limit i tend to be around 189, and that calculation gives me 187.

Went out last night with the Garmin HRM for the first time and feel better about my impending death from heart failure!

I know obviously it could depend on various factors but i followed the same "easy" route as i did last week and the average HR was 147. Still probably a little higher than expected but given my height/weight it's properly more where i'd expect it to be vs 165bpm previously reported.

It spikes where i'd expect it to (hill), then drops down nicely as i potter along fairly comfortably and then increases towards the end as i built up the pace for the last stretch.



One thing i did find was how much more comfortable i felt in that end stretch running faster. I was probably around 7:45min/miles for about 0.4miles and whilst it was tiring i definitely felt like i could've continued a bit longer. In the past, any increased pace like that would wipe me out really quickly. I'll put that down to the weight loss which helps motivation to continue.

What's also quite funny is that it feels like i've barely ran this month and am at 58miles for the month which would've been a "typical" month for me last year, yet this month i feel like i've hardly been out and been resting a lot trying to get over this stupid foot issue.

147 is closer to the spot. You said earlier you have a resting HR of 47, which is really low. Your max HR is similar or slightly lower than mine.

A 147bpm average is quite clsoe to what you should be doing. A 140-145 is probably more in line with a true easy pace but you don't have to be that exact.

 

[Martynt74]

Yeah, i think it's much more realistic and shows how off the optical reading was. Which was actually consistent across multiple devices. I had always assumed the readings were correct and just didn't catch fluctuations as quick as a strap.

Looking forward to getting out for some more runs to see how things compare. It's very sad to be excited about getting readings from a HRM!

Then the next thing is to try and increase my cadence (currently ~150) as my physio noticed i overstride quite a bit which will be causing some of my issues and increased strike rate should help combat that. I've been trying it over small sections and it feels very unnatural for even just a small % increase.

 

[Ian_Eb]

Did they have some suggestions for how to increase cadence? I keep trying and it just feels all wrong. I suppose that's 50 years of doing it this way for you.

 

[Martynt74]

No, although i meant to ask the week after and forgot. As you say, even when i try and increase to 160 whilst maintaining pace i feel like i'm about to trip over my own feet!

I noticed my watch has a metronome so that might help to try and follow and hope that eventually it just becomes "normal"

 

[D.P.]

I think rather than focusing on increasing cadence you want to focus on reducing stride length. Take smaller steps, with your foot landing just in fornt of you so when you start loading you leg, your body has caught up and your leg start to bend at the knee and therefore you body mass/CoG is directly above you leg which compresses like a spring

 

[Ian_Eb]

Some of the stuff I am reading seems to imply that stride length/cadence will change as you lose weight. Some of it must happen naturally once you aren't having to launch the same mass I presume?

 

[The Darkness]

I forced my cadence to change. Took my son's guitar metronome out with me for a few wks. I started at 165 and increased in 5 or so steps every few days. Felt weird for a while.

Now 190 is normal for me and any less feels weird, although my running friends did take the **** as it looks a bit silly.

 

[div0]

I missed out some words there!

But basically your easy training pace will be about 1.5-2minutes slower per mile than your marathon pace.
Converting that to metric, that is a bout 6min/km pace. It seems you are going to be a little less fit (as in pure run performance) than when you did your marathon so easy pace might be more like 6:20/km.

That might feel very slow but as you build up volume and reduce recovery time, start adding long runs or workouts then that easy pacestarts to feel much harder and it is a relief to be able to run that slow.


As a ball park, 220-age is accurate but there is high variance. So a 30yo on average will be at 190, but could easily be at 210 or 170 etc. You don't need to be too accurate now, bu if you expect your Max HR to be 190 then next time you end up running really hard and feel you can;t run much faster have a look aferwards what your HR really was. Once you start interval training you get a better idea

Thanks. That makes sense. Last 2 runs have been closer to 5:50/km. Will keep trying to set a slower pace.

 

[Ian_Eb]

I forced my cadence to change. Took my son's guitar metronome out with me for a few wks. I started at 165 and increased in 5 or so steps every few days. Felt weird for a while.

Now 190 is normal for me and any less feels weird, although my running friends did take the **** as it looks a bit silly.

One of these?



Not surprised they took the ****

 

[SPG]

I tried that once with a APP on the phone, I was spangled after 15mins Old dog and new tricks springs to mind.

We should a pick a team event for later on in the year, just to see how bad we can do

 

[Martynt74]

Some of you lot would fly round and already be drunk at the pub by the time me and @Ian_Eb turned up!

Decided to "work" from home today to get a decent run in. Yesterday it was lovely and sunny and crisp. Today it's raining and grey

 

[Ian_Eb]

I was going to go out last night, but didn't get the washing machine rebuilt until gone 10pm :-/

Tomorrow is next chance and the weather is looking particularly grim

 

[D.P.]

Thanks. That makes sense. Last 2 runs have been closer to 5:50/km. Will keep trying to set a slower pace.

It isn't hyper critical, and isn't a black and white thing so it is not like terrible things happen if you run slightly faster than what a recommended easy pace is.
It is really that the faster you run the greater the impact forces and so the greater the injury risk, yet there are no real benefit to run performance by forcing yourself to go that little be faster. There are some adaptions that happen best at lower speeds, some at very hard efforts, but the middle ground is kind fo a worst of both worlds where you don;t get the benefits & adaptions of an easy pace, nor do you get the adaptions of the higher pace, but you do share the increased injruy risk of the higher pace. So in general terms it is like a binary training regime, you either go easy, or you go real hard in intervals or a race. Nothing bad happens in between, but it is less optimal. Sometimes it is fun to run that little bit harder than the easy pace but not as hard as a workout, and that is totally fine, it just should be what your ever day pace is.

You also find that if you run slower then you can run longer, and lomnger runs burn more calories and lead to greater adaptions than running a bit harder but shorter.

 

[div0]

in general terms it is like a binary training regime, you either go easy, or you go real hard in intervals or a race. Nothing bad happens in between, but it is less optimal.

Funnily enough, I just got to that exact section of the book.

What's your take with carrying on any easy running while carrying what feels like a minor muscle strain? Last few runs my calf has been pretty tight, but once I get going it doesn't cause me any bother at all while the pace is slow and I've been able to do 15km+ back to back without any real bother. Pretty sure that if I did try to run hard on it that it would probably go though, so previously I'd have just rested completely for a few days.

Have taken the day off today, as I've had several good outings in a row recently. But wondering what people's thoughts are on complete rest vs just carrying on with any easy running.

 

[D.P.]

Funnily enough, I just got to that exact section of the book.

What's your take with carrying on any easy running while carrying what feels like a minor muscle strain? Last few runs my calf has been pretty tight, but once I get going it doesn't cause me any bother at all while the pace is slow and I've been able to do 15km+ back to back without any real bother. Pretty sure that if I did try to run hard on it that it would probably go though, so previously I'd have just rested completely for a few days.

Have taken the day off today, as I've had several good outings in a row recently. But wondering what people's thoughts are on complete rest vs just carrying on with any easy running.

Once you get in to heavy train then minor muscle strains and little niggles become the norm. You just have to be very careful and alert. There is a fine line between a slightly strained muscle and soemthign more sinister.

If i feel something I slow down my easy runs, reduce distance a little, cut out any kind of intervals/speed work and add a rest day. If things don;t get worse in the run then *usually* there is no problem. The symptoms should reduce each day, if anything gets worse you need to get more rest days.

 

[div0]

Thanks, appreciate it's not easy to advise on injuries as it can be very much a personal thing. I've done pretty much as you suggested though and just taken extra caution on last couple of runs and now decided a day off wouldn't do any harm. I don't have any immediate plans to start any speed work anyway, as still trying to make sure my legs are well adjusted to the increased volume and reduced recovery.

 

[D.P.]

Thanks, appreciate it's not easy to advise on injuries as it can be very much a personal thing. I've done pretty much as you suggested though and just taken extra caution on last couple of runs and now decided a day off wouldn't do any harm. I don't have any immediate plans to start any speed work anyway, as still trying to make sure my legs are well adjusted to the increased volume and reduced recovery.

At the early training stages it really pays to be super cautious of injuries. Even once you have been training for sometimes (say 2 years), it is worth thinking about where you are in a training cycle. E.g., if you have a race planned in 4 months so you are just building volume then no need to risk anything. If you are 6 weeks out from the race then you are at peak training and the training is more important in determining final performance, and this is also when volume and intensity are pushed to the max so your body will likely suffer more minor niggles. At this point there is a risk-reward calculation. If you push a minor niggle into a proper injury then you have blown your race chances, but with experience you can learn that when you have symptom X and you back away just a little and the niggle goes away then you can quickly get back to hard training.

 

[D.P.]

I'm thinking of a last minute signup to the Barcelona marathon. Just a little worried London will be cancelled.
I was originally going to do the Valencia or Mercia Marathon earlier this year but I just wasn't at the fitness level I wanted. I'm closer but not in PR shape although things are hopefully on track for London. It will suck to go through yet another good training cycle and not have anything to show for it. Even if London goes ahead there is always the risk that I don't feel well, the weather sucks or I am just not feeling 'it' on the day for a PR. Hence I wanted a mid-winter marathon to spread my bets.

I'm thinking a super short taper, enter the race with an aim of a tiny PR only if conditions are good, and try not do a hard finish so that I can recover quick and be back to full training within a week. Then I can do a 3 week hard build and 2 week taper for London.

Of course they might cancel the Barcelona marathon.

 

[Martynt74]

I suppose the main issue is the financial impact of flights/hotels if it gets cancelled as i'm not sure insurance companies would cover it.

Probably worth hedging your bets, and i'd expect Barcelona to be less at risk of canceling that London as the warmer weather should contain the spread slightly.


First run with my Trail group in about a month yesterday. Had about 1.5 bottles of wine the night before which didn't help, but enjoyed it for the most part. Was windy but the rain held off, can't wait for some of it to dry out over summer though as some of the trails are stupidly muddy.

From a weight loss point of view i've lost around 8.5kg and so now down to 99.8kg and can really feel the difference on hills along with finding it easier to increase the pace slightly.

 

[D.P.]

hotel is booked, waiting on flights but since hotels are non-refundable I will likely go regardless. Not really worried about the lost costs but not being able to race. Most weekends in May I ham busy or looking after the kids, and after that it is too hot everywhere for a good race plus I have to train for summer ultras.

Barcelona flights are dirt cheap and I have a good friend to stay at for free so there is no financial issue. It will disrupt London training though, so I think if I go to Barcelona I only have a small chance of a PR (I'm not yet in shape, the course is slightly hilly and likely too hot) , and the lost trainign will reduce chances of a dstrtong showing at London . On the flipside, even if London goes ahead there might be a really strong headwind or I feel sick on the day etc, so doing Barcelona will increase chances I get at least 1 good Marathon, a t a cost of reducing chances of a really fast London race.

Also have to do some careful negotiations with the wife