Please turn off the TV

One More Solo said:
Putting it on a timeline like that is ridiculous. As other posters have already pointed out, living standards are declining for the first time now.

Regardless, the overwhelming presumption in this thread is that people will regret not having kids. How many people have kids and regret it? Surely it's better for all concerned that those who have doubts don't just conform to societal expectations in the hope it will turn out to be OK?
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And yet living standards in the the UK are comparatively higher than almost everywhere else humans are living in the world.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
This is the best time in human history to raise children, when was better, 100, 200, 300, 3000 years ago? When their chances of surviving to adulthood were lower than dying from any number of horrific things. Perhaps its best he doesn't have kids, must be a real joy to be around
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Not quite. As far as we can tell, most people survived to adulthood even in the worst period of time (shortly after the beginning of the industrial revolution). Except maybe in major industrialised cities at that time. In those days the total death rate in London exceeded the total birth rate in London. The population of London only continued to increase due to the constant influx of people from elsewhere, seeking the streets paved with gold (and mostly finding them paved literally with faeces and metaphorically with cholera, typhus, deadly levels of pollution, murder, etc, etc).

I think it's probably true that living standards for most people in the UK are lower than they were for most people in the UK ~20 years ago. This forum is anomalous because of the number of members with more disposable income than most people. £4K for a toy to play games on is not a normal thing. It's unthinkable to most people in the UK, but OcUK apparently rapidly sells out of the toys they sell at that price. £2K+ for a graphics card would probably mean ~£4K for the complete PC. Or more.

I think it's more complex when you consider the whole of life. For example, I didn't have the pressure of "social" media when I was a child. I think I was better off because of that. There was an informal network of parents locally who looked after each other's children, the 1970s version of a village. Parents were better off because of that. Or go back a bit further...my maternal grandfather (like most of his peers), worked for pay which he brought home and gave to his wife, who handled the household finances. He also worked an allotment, which provided a fair bit of the veg for the family. One wage, ample money for a family. They bought their house in 5 years. A fairly large detached house with two large gardens (one of which was a another mini-farm). Granted, he was a skilled builder and bricklayer and his wage was a fair bit better than average but it wasn't uncommon in those days for 1 person's wage to be enough to support a family. My mother's first house was £450 at a time when her wage was £250 a year. For working in a department store. Not a well paid job. Better in some ways, worse in others. Or go back quite a bit further...there are records of the average working year being ~190 days in high and late medieval England. That's a lot of time off. There's a lot of scope for "better in some ways, worse in others" throughout most of known history.

What I'm pretty sure isn't sustainable is the elaborate Ponzi scheme of an economy based on continued increase in population and continued increase in disparity of income that we've had for a while now. There will be major changes. The only question is the nature of those changes.
 
Never wanted them so never had them. My brother has 4 though so he's got my back on this one.

There are a lot of people out there who should never have had them because they are terrible terrible parents. I get the feeling some people have them not because they want them but because its the done thing. You should want children and be willing to give them all the time, care and love they deserve or don't bother.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
Never wanted them so never had them. My brother has 4 though so he's got my back on this one.

There are a lot of people out there who should never have had them because they are terrible terrible parents. I get the feeling some people have them not because they want them but because its the done thing. You should want children and be willing to give them all the time, care and love they deserve or don't bother.
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Well, they say most accidents happen in the home.

 
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No kids because, quite frankly, I’d be a horrific parent and should never be given something that relies on me for every need and would die otherwise. Plants included.
 
Penfold101 said:
No kids because, quite frankly, I’d be a horrific parent and should never be given something that relies on me for every need and would die otherwise. Plants included.
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Plants are easy. Children however, it's one thing looking after other people's children but having your own sounds absolutely terrifying.

"Peter Mitchell : I'm an architect for Christ sake, I build 50 story skyscrapers, I assemble cities of the future, I can certainly put together a goddamn diaper." :cry:

 
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