Porsche Owners Thread - If you own one or just like or hate them! :)

[Peerzy]

Hi m8

Guys who do no track work are seeing 30k+ miles from a set on 911's.

Its not just the longest lasting tyre I've ever experienced but also the best performance road tyre by absolute miles, nothing comes close to the wet/dry grip they offer, but the most important factor the confidence and feedback they offer.

Pricing wise, they are similar to other premium tyres, check Camskill, lovetyres etc. etc.

Very interesting, sounds like the option to go for.

OPC Guildford quoted me £320 per tyre for Bridgestone N1's I think and no doubt they'll do the same when it comes round to me getting the 111 point check.

 

[Gibbo]

Very interesting, sounds like the option to go for.

OPC Guildford quoted me £320 per tyre for Bridgestone N1's I think and no doubt they'll do the same when it comes round to me getting the 111 point check.

Ah if your under OPC warranty, you need to have a quiet chat with your OPC to see if they will let you fit them as they are not N-Spec approved.

The Bridgestones in comparison though are nowhere near as good.

 

[SoliD]

Booked my car in for a service today, requested a 991, they said yes a C2S should be free on that day, I'll confirm with my sales manager this afternoon.

Going to be an expensive day of Petrol burning

 

[Gibbo]

Another video:-

Booked my car in for a service today, requested a 991, they said yes a C2S should be free on that day, I'll confirm with my sales manager this afternoon.

Going to be an expensive day of Petrol burning

Good on ya, something I shall certainly request in the Summer when I find a reason for my car to go in.

 

[Gibbo]

Another has uploaded, I follow RJK's EP3 for a while to record some footage of his car for him, after 2-3 laps, I put then put the hammer down and off I went on my own thing.

 

[Kingy]

Gibbo how much were these SuperSports

Gibbo's will be a different size/price to the Boxster as they run wider rears...

I forgot exactly but when I priced up a set in 235/35/19 & 265/35/19 it came out at ~£900...

I was very temped, but I went for new wheels and just couldn't justify the extra cost over PS2s...

You're running 18's though aren't you?

 

[Kingy]

My car has PCCB which is bigger calipers, bigger disc but they are ceramic so about £2500 per disc minimum, for road use they'll last the life of the car, but track use can kill them. Turbo disc are the right fit and size and cost 20x less per set, braking performance will be similar. Ceramics are dust free and weigh far less, but I'm gonna try the steels with ceramic pads and see how they go.

I don't get this? What do you gain out of converting to steel discs while your ceramics still have life in them?

Unless you're planning to strip off the rest of the PCCB components (what are these btw?) and sell them seperately to maximise total resale value?

 

[Gibbo]

I don't get this? What do you gain out of converting to steel discs while your ceramics still have life in them?

Unless you're planning to strip off the rest of the PCCB components (what are these btw?) and sell them seperately to maximise total resale value?

A set of PCCB disc would cost me 10k+ all round and they help improve the value of the car. If I keep doing track days, I will kill them and I don't fancy the 10k+ cost to replace them.

Steel disc are approx £600 a set and actually last longer for track use as they can take the heat punishment a lot better.

PCCB upgrade on a C2S means disc go from 330mm upto 350mm all round. Front calipers increase from 4 piston to 6 piston and rear calipers from 2 piston upto 4 piston.

So as I like the extra stopping power of the larger calipers which are same as 911 Turbo ones, I can just fit steel 997 turbo disc which will work fine and I can put my ceramics aside and put back on the car when I decide to sell.

 

[Kingy]

A set of PCCB disc would cost me 10k+ all round and they help improve the value of the car. If I keep doing track days, I will kill them and I don't fancy the 10k+ cost to replace them.

Steel disc are approx £600 a set and actually last longer for track use as they can take the heat punishment a lot better.

PCCB upgrade on a C2S means disc go from 330mm upto 350mm all round. Front calipers increase from 4 piston to 6 piston and rear calipers from 2 piston upto 4 piston.

So as I like the extra stopping power of the larger calipers which are same as 911 Turbo ones, I can just fit steel 997 turbo disc which will work fine and I can put my ceramics aside and put back on the car when I decide to sell.

I'd get why you'd do it if the ceramics were already knackered, but are PCCBs on a ~30k C2S really going to add that much value, or are they just going to be a bonus feature for whoever buys the car from you?

If you could realise 2-3k to spend on tyres & track days by selling PCCBs and converting to 911 Turbo steelies I'd get it, but denying yourself PCCB for the benefit of the next buyer is masochism imo...

Steels are better than ceramics for track work? I thought the whole point of ceramics were that they didn't fade on track?

 

[Gibbo]

I'd get why you'd do it if the ceramics were already knackered, but are PCCBs on a ~30k C2S really going to add that much value, or are they just going to be a bonus feature for whoever buys the car from you?

If you could realise 2-3k to spend on tyres & track days by selling PCCBs and converting to 911 Turbo steelies I'd get it, but denying yourself PCCB for the benefit of the next buyer is masochism imo...

Steels are better than ceramics for track work? I thought the whole point of ceramics were that they didn't fade on track?

Steels don't fade on track either, with the right pad and cooling of course.

Fact is when/if I come to buy a 997.2 GT3 or Turbo, a must have option for me will be PCCB, even if I pull it off. So yes its a bonus but it could be the difference between a car selling and not.

Fact is why waste a set of ceramics, when on track they provide no real benefit and because its always in the back of my head about them I am not braking as hard or as late as I could be, due to fear of ruining them.

Advantage of ceramics is no/little dust, not sure if this is down to the pad or disc, if its pad then I could be retaining this as I am going to try using ceramic pads with steel disc, supposedly it works.

Fade free, ceramics are indeed fade free, or have been for me, but steels can be fade free too, just getting the right pads/disc.

The main advantage of ceramics is on a road car they will last the life of the car or pretty much at least 100,000 miles. They are pretty much dust/noise free and of course they reduce the unsprung mass by approx 3-4kg per corner.

Hey I might fit steels and hate it, or I might love the added confidence on track of them and not be in fear of hurting them.

Oh and my final video:-

 

[Peerzy]

Gibbo's will be a different size/price to the Boxster as they run wider rears...

I forgot exactly but when I priced up a set in 235/35/19 & 265/35/19 it came out at ~£900...

I was very temped, but I went for new wheels and just couldn't justify the extra cost over PS2s...

You're running 18's though aren't you?

Yeah I've got 18's, hopefully that'll mean a decent range to choose from and not as expensive as OPC wanted.

 

[Kingy]

Steels don't fade on track either, with the right pad and cooling of course.

Fact is when/if I come to buy a 997.2 GT3 or Turbo, a must have option for me will be PCCB, even if I pull it off. So yes its a bonus but it could be the difference between a car selling and not.

Fact is why waste a set of ceramics, when on track they provide no real benefit and because its always in the back of my head about them I am not braking as hard or as late as I could be, due to fear of ruining them.

Advantage of ceramics is no/little dust, not sure if this is down to the pad or disc, if its pad then I could be retaining this as I am going to try using ceramic pads with steel disc, supposedly it works.

Fade free, ceramics are indeed fade free, or have been for me, but steels can be fade free too, just getting the right pads/disc.

The main advantage of ceramics is on a road car they will last the life of the car or pretty much at least 100,000 miles. They are pretty much dust/noise free and of course they reduce the unsprung mass by approx 3-4kg per corner.

Hey I might fit steels and hate it, or I might love the added confidence on track of them and not be in fear of hurting them.

I mean this with the greatest of respect, but you're *only* running a C2S. It's a cracking car, and a cracking example, but it's probably valued at ~30k (this shouldn't read snobbishly as I'm only running a Boxster at like a third of the value of yours).

I take your point, but there are certain options that feature often enough on a ~£70k car, and a more focused drivers car at that (given that you can't yet ruin a GT3 with PDK (RAR! ), that you wouldn't be able to expect on a ~£30k car.

You sell enough everyman graphics cards to know that everyman sells at a everyman price. You might not get an uberprice, but it'll still sell...

Long story short, imo it'd be reasonable to expect that a well specced car would be attract a little extra at resale time, but I'd be suprised if you could sell a PCCB'd C2S for within 4 figures of a C2S running steelie C2S brakes, having sold the PCCBs seperately...

Enough of the fence sitting. Man up and enjoy now what you say you'll demand later... *IF* you kill your PCCBs in the process, replace with steelies, and no-one buying a ~£30k C2S will bat an eyelid...

 

[Kingy]

Yeah I've got 18's, hopefully that'll mean a decent range to choose from and not as expensive as OPC wanted.

I'm no expert, but I gather the OPC compliant N rating thing reduces range to choose from somewhat...

Pick the best tyres that won't invalidate your warranty, then find the cheapest price, which is likely to be removed from the OPC...

Was the £320 for a front or rear?

 

[Gibbo]

I mean this with the greatest of respect, but you're *only* running a C2S. It's a cracking car, and a cracking example, but it's probably valued at ~30k (this shouldn't read snobbishly as I'm only running a Boxster at like a third of the value of yours).

I take your point, but there are certain options that feature often enough on a ~£70k car, and a more focused drivers car at that (given that you can't yet ruin a GT3 with PDK (RAR! ), that you wouldn't be able to expect on a ~£30k car.

You sell enough everyman graphics cards to know that everyman sells at a everyman price. You might not get an uberprice, but it'll still sell...

Long story short, imo it'd be reasonable to expect that a well specced car would be attract a little extra at resale time, but I'd be suprised if you could sell a PCCB'd C2S for within 4 figures of a C2S running steelie C2S brakes, having sold the PCCBs seperately...

Enough of the fence sitting. Man up and enjoy now what you say you'll demand later... *IF* you kill your PCCBs in the process, replace with steelies, and no-one buying a ~£30k C2S will bat an eyelid...

It's not about re-sell price, but resale desirability. It's also options which make the 911, a bog standard C2S, is great but does not sound as good, stop as well or go as quick. A lot of people buy 911's on specification and quality of example. As the options can make such a big difference to the way they look, drive and sound.

Of course the other option is I could pull of the ceramics and when it came to selling also remove the calipers and fit the regular calipers, meaning I'd have a full PCCB kit which resell for circa 5-6k second hand. So about 3-4k after expense of converting back to normal.

When I was buying my car must have options was sport chrono, aerokit and PSE. Then PCCB and X51 with an option I'd like. My car had PCCB but no PSE so I retrofitted that and have added parts of the X51 kit.

No idea what you mean by stuff featuring on a 70k and not a 30k car, again it's all down to options.

For me if I go GT3 it has to be one with buckets and no cage, ideally with PCCB. A comfort Spec one for me is a no go.

People shop on spec.

Plus if I ruined my ceramics and did not buy more, I'd have to convert the car completely to stock brakes if I wanted to sell it with a Porsche warranty and pretty much every yellow 911 built has PCCB No doubt due to the yellow calipers and is an expectation of the yellow ones as they are extremely rare and normally are top spec cars, the yellow ones right now are even fetching premiums due to the colour.

 

[ScoobyDoo69]

If you buy a GT3 with PCCB won't you have this problem of not really wanting to use the brakes to full capability in fear of having to replace?

 

[^JP^]

I thought Porsche did a motorsport pad for the ceramics if you did heavy track use?

Was reading that the stock pads are too soft, overheat, then fall to bits and knacker the rotors.

 

[Gibbo]

If you buy a GT3 with PCCB won't you have this problem of not really wanting to use the brakes to full capability in fear of having to replace?

GT3 has larger 380mm front disc to help with cooling along with better cooling, seems to help them a lot.

Not sure if they have different pads/calipers though.

I thought Porsche did a motorsport pad for the ceramics if you did heavy track use?

Was reading that the stock pads are too soft, overheat, then fall to bits and knacker the rotors.

I did ask but nothing came up for my car. Need to investigate what pads GT3 uses and if they'd fit in my calipers, could be an option.

 

[^JP^]

GT3 has larger 380mm front disc to help with cooling along with better cooling, seems to help them a lot.

Not sure if they have different pads/calipers though.

I did ask but nothing came up for my car. Need to investigate what pads GT3 uses and if they'd fit in my calipers, could be an option.

Yeah it should be some Pagid made ones (used to be P50 Green but I think there are newer options) for Porsche CCB track/motorsport use.

And you also have to turn TC or whatever other assists it has off so the rear pads don't get eaten. That is what happens with the softer stock CCB pads then they fall to bits which causes the damage.

I have been reading up a lot on CCB for the GTR (people use other brands discs and pads in the stock 6 and 4 piston calipers) but decided to stick with steel also and get some AP or Alcons when my stock ones start to show cracks around the holes.

Edit: See post 6 here http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/gt3-gt2-gt/260238-pccb-advice.html#post3373493
I think as long as the pads don't break up from overheating then the ceramic discs should last for the life of the car, its just getting the right pad for the situation and the stock pad is too soft (which gives the better initial bite for street driving).

 

[Kingy]

It's not about re-sell price, but resale desirability. It's also options which make the 911, a bog standard C2S, is great but does not sound as good, stop as well or go as quick. A lot of people buy 911's on specification and quality of example. As the options can make such a big difference to the way they look, drive and sound.

Of course the other option is I could pull of the ceramics and when it came to selling also remove the calipers and fit the regular calipers, meaning I'd have a full PCCB kit which resell for circa 5-6k second hand. So about 3-4k after expense of converting back to normal.

When I was buying my car must have options was sport chrono, aerokit and PSE. Then PCCB and X51 with an option I'd like. My car had PCCB but no PSE so I retrofitted that and have added parts of the X51 kit.

No idea what you mean by stuff featuring on a 70k and not a 30k car, again it's all down to options.

For me if I go GT3 it has to be one with buckets and no cage, ideally with PCCB. A comfort Spec one for me is a no go.

People shop on spec.

Plus if I ruined my ceramics and did not buy more, I'd have to convert the car completely to stock brakes if I wanted to sell it with a Porsche warranty and pretty much every yellow 911 built has PCCB No doubt due to the yellow calipers and is an expectation of the yellow ones as they are extremely rare and normally are top spec cars, the yellow ones right now are even fetching premiums due to the colour.

I mean no offense...

I disagree that people shop on spec. Enthusiasts shop on spec, but people shop on badge, age, mileage, gearbox, then spec (all imo of course).

You say you think you'd see £3-4k after reverting to complpetely stock brakes. Do you think your car would fetch £3-4k more for having PCCB fitted than if it only had completely stock brakes?

All I mean by the 70k/30k thing is that there are features like PCCB that are far more common on 70k Gen2 GT3s than they are on 30k C2S', ie when shopping for GT3s you can legitimately filter on PCCB, but that's less plausble when shopping for a C2S.

All I'm trying to say (badly) is that were it me, I'd either realise the 3-4k in converting and selling, or fully use the PCCB until they failed, then replace with steel...

 

[Gibbo]

I mean no offense...

I disagree that people shop on spec. Enthusiasts shop on spec, but people shop on badge, age, mileage, gearbox, then spec (all imo of course).

You say you think you'd see £3-4k after reverting to complpetely stock brakes. Do you think your car would fetch £3-4k more for having PCCB fitted than if it only had completely stock brakes?

All I mean by the 70k/30k thing is that there are features like PCCB that are far more common on 70k Gen2 GT3s than they are on 30k C2S', ie when shopping for GT3s you can legitimately filter on PCCB, but that's less plausble when shopping for a C2S.

All I'm trying to say (badly) is that were it me, I'd either realise the 3-4k in converting and selling, or fully use the PCCB until they failed, then replace with steel...

I think a lot of people who buy a cooking C2S or GT3 are an enthusiast though, like myself we want the car for the way it drives, not the badge. Your everyday punter don't buy a bright yellow 911

I think absolute maximum value PCCB adds to a car is maybe 2k, but it's more about the complete package, my car would look naff with smaller red calipers and disc behind the wheels, as such not as desirable.
Look on PH and 911 uk there are people hunting down yellow 911's and they have a desirable spec in mind and are willing to pay the price to get that perfect spec. Perfect spec is aero, chrono, X51, PCCB and adaptive sports seats and people pay top whack for such cars because they are so rare.

So it's a hard call my car has close to perfect spec and that could mean a buyer who wants it will pay top whack for it or like you say it could bring more money to sell the PCCB separately.