Pound for pound best point and shoot.

[mid_gen]

A stop is a quantifiable measure of the shutter speed/ISO/aperture trifecta.

1 stop better performance from a lens/camera combo comes from either the aperture, the ISO, or the shutter. Not from the 'effective ISO', 'effective shutter speed', or 'effective aperture'.

Can you point me to somewhere that talks about 'effective aperture' in terms of camera performance because honestly I have never seen it, and to me the term is ambiguous and makes no sense. I can't see the phrase mentioned anywhere in that DPReview article

 

[D.P.]

A stop is a quantifiable measure of the shutter speed/ISO/aperture trifecta.

and it an also mean one heck of a lot more, 1 stop doF, 1 stop dynamic range, 1 stop increased color depth, 1 stop larger sensor, 1 stop improved image stabilization capability. 1 stop just means doubling a value related to exposure and aperture. Increasing sensor in size by a factor 2 is a 1 stop improvement in light gathering ability and makes the effective aperture of a lens 1 atop wider, reducing the Depth of focus by 1 stop. See how simpyl it is.

1 stop better performance from a lens/camera combo comes from either the aperture, the ISO, or the shutter. Not from the 'effective ISO', 'effective shutter speed', or 'effective aperture'.

yes, but effective aperture neatly and cleanly describe the difference is simply terms that allows easy comparisons without having to do any math.

Can you point me to somewhere that talks about 'effective aperture' in terms of camera performance because honestly I have never seen it, and to me the term is ambiguous and makes no sense. I can't see the phrase mentioned anywhere in that DPReview article

https://www.google.com/search?q=eff...ffective+aperture"+lens+site:www.dpreview.com


And if you have already forgotten there is a nice graph posted on page 1 showing the effective aperture of the different cameras:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-lx100/images/Equiv_Ap.png

Look at the Y-axis, oh my, "Equivalent Aperture".

It is OK to admit you didn't know something, but continuously going against everyone on the forum without a shred of evidence is simply wasting everyone's time

Just because you haven't read it doesn't mean it is not an industry wide concept.

 

[mid_gen]

I've not been on DPReview for ages as I haven't really shot digital in years, I'd never see this term anywhere before, I searched on the article but couldn't see it

Judging by the fact most of those forum posts mentioning it are people asking what the hell it means I'm not the only one confused by it!

I'll stick to the real values when comparing things

 

[D.P.]

I've not been on DPReview for ages as I haven't really shot digital in years, I'd never see this term anywhere before, I searched on the article but couldn't see it

Judging by the fact most of those forum posts mentioning it are people asking what the hell it means I'm not the only one confused by it!

I'll stick to the real values when comparing things

So do you measure the physical aperture of lenses, or simply go by the f-number which is not a real value (it is unit-less)?

For me anyway getting that ruler out and measuring lens diameters and sensor sizes before doing some math is a real chore. Much easier when it is all normalized.

 

[mid_gen]

I guess I can see the benefits of this 'effective aperture' calculation if you just want to abstract the information into a single value to plot on a comparison graph. I hadn't seen it before, that's all.

f-stop, ISO performance and sensor size is simpler and more explicit though, I'll stick with what I know

 

[D.P.]

I guess I can see the benefits of this 'effective aperture' calculation if you just want to abstract the information into a single value to plot on a comparison graph. I hadn't seen it before, that's all.

f-stop, ISO performance and sensor size is simpler and more explicit though, I'll stick with what I know

If camera A has a 16.2 mm × 11.8mm sensor and camera B has 23.7x15.8mm, if both lenses have a 105mmm f/2.8 lens shot at f/5.6 on a subject 12.5 meters away, what is the relative difference in subject magnification and what is the relative different in Depth of Focus? At what f-stop and focal lenth does camera A have to be shot at to get the same depth of focus and subject magnification.

That is much easier to work out when someone says that Camera B has a a sensor 1 stop larger than camera A, but if you want to get a calculator out then sure, is good to practice math. But personalty i'll sick to simply knowing I have to set the aperture 1 stop wider on camera A.

 

[Columbo]

I'll simplify:

Big sensor - Goooooood
Small sensor - Baaaaaad

Wide aperture - Nomnomnomnom
Narrow Aperture - Errrggghhh

See, easy!

 

[mid_gen]

If camera A has a 16.2 mm × 11.8mm sensor and camera B has 23.7x15.8mm, if both lenses have a 105mmm f/2.8 lens shot at f/5.6 on a subject 12.5 meters away, what is the relative difference in subject magnification and what is the relative different in Depth of Focus? At what f-stop and focal lenth does camera A have to be shot at to get the same depth of focus and subject magnification.

That is much easier to work out when someone says that Camera B has a a sensor 1 stop larger than camera A, but if you want to get a calculator out then sure, is good to practice math. But personalty i'll sick to simply knowing I have to set the aperture 1 stop wider on camera A.

Intrigued to hear how the '1 stop' effective aperture tells you the focal length for camera A, what is the math, using effective aperture as an input?

I don't have the luxury of a computer to work these things out on my main camera, so I have to do the math in my head for every shot anyway.

 

[mid_gen]

I'll simplify:

Big sensor - Goooooood
Small sensor - Baaaaaad

Wide aperture - Nomnomnomnom
Narrow Aperture - Errrggghhh

See, easy!

Depends if you're doing macro Still, glad I ditched the DSLR race years ago. Nice knowing the gear I buy goes up in value rather than down!

 

[Richdog]

Still, glad I ditched the DSLR race years ago. Nice knowing the gear I buy goes up in value rather than down!

What gear do you buy?

 

[mid_gen]

What gear do you buy?

Leica. Much easier justifying a lens splurge when you know its not going to lose a penny in value! Remarkable how second nature shooting full manual becomes after a while, you don't need to do any math, you just know what settings are right for a given scene

 

[Richdog]

Leica. Much easier justifying a lens splurge when you know its not going to lose a penny in value! Remarkable how second nature shooting full manual becomes after a while, you don't need to do any math, you just know what settings are right for a given scene

Interesting, but sounds like fun. Still, shooting anything moving at speed must be a bit of a hit and miss even with good manual skills?

 

[D.P.]

Intrigued to hear how the '1 stop' effective aperture tells you the focal length for camera A, what is the math, using effective aperture as an input?

I don't have the luxury of a computer to work these things out on my main camera, so I have to do the math in my head for every shot anyway.

If you are talking about focal length then its called ewuivalent focal length, a sensor 1 stop smaller has an equivalent focal length 1.5x longer.

If you don't have a computer and younha e to.do the.math in your head, why do you want to use a really complex mathematically involved route using exact sensor size and lens diameters that you were advocating above? You are an ideal candidate to use simpler methods designed for a quick mental use, like equivalent aperture.

 

[D.P.]

Depends if you're doing macro Still, glad I ditched the DSLR race years ago. Nice knowing the gear I buy goes up in value rather than down!

Macro is best done with larger sensor due to the circle of confusion. Sure you must stop down further to get equivalent DoF (see that word again) but you can can stop down further getting a larger DoF than a smaller sensor before diffraction reduces resolution.

 

[mid_gen]

Interesting, but sounds like fun. Still, shooting anything moving at speed must be a bit of a hit and miss even with good manual skills?

I tend to shoot street while on the move, zone pre-focusing can be very effective, although I wouldn't go trying birds in flight or anything! Hyperfocal distance on my 12mm is about 30cm or something ridiculous so focus isn't really an issue mind

It's really quite liberating shooting completely manual though, no distractions, never regretted selling up my digital gear.

 

[Richdog]

I tend to shoot street while on the move, zone pre-focusing can be very effective, although I wouldn't go trying birds in flight or anything! Hyperfocal distance on my 12mm is about 30cm or something ridiculous so focus isn't really an issue mind

It's really quite liberating shooting completely manual though, no distractions, never regretted selling up my digital gear.

Heh I'm always interested to hear about other people's methods, but full manual certainly wouldn't be for me.

 

[D.P.]

It's really quite liberating shooting completely manual though, no distractions, never regretted selling up my digital gear.

That is exactly why I like as much automation as possible, so I can concentrate on the aesthetics and compositions and completely ignored ISO, focus, shutter speed and pointless settings that mean nothing to the final art.

 

[Andy90]

That is exactly why I like as much automation as possible, so I can concentrate on the aesthetics and compositions and completely ignored ISO, focus, shutter speed and pointless settings that mean nothing to the final art.

I had coffee coming out of my nose laughing at this one... superb, you've outdone yourself.

 

[D.P.]

I had coffee coming out of my nose laughing at this one... superb, you've outdone yourself.

And what exactly is is you are disgeeing with?

99% of the time my camera is in aperture priority, auto ISO and auto AF, I select an aperture based on desired DoF. No need to clutter my working process with pointless distractions, just concentrate on what is going on in the viewfinder, and what is going on outside the viewfinder.

 

[Richdog]

And what exactly is is you are disgeeing with?

99% of the time my camera is in aperture priority, auto ISO and auto AF, I select an aperture based on desired DoF. No need to clutter my working process with pointless distractions, just concentrate on what is going on in the viewfinder, and what is going on outside the viewfinder.

While I would never be dismissive of manual control (it obviously has good uses), I also spend most of my time in Aperture priority mode and (in reasonable lighting conditions) Auto ISO. If you know your camera and how it behaves then automating things really helps you to focus on getting the shot you want because you can trust your camera to make the right decisions for your exposure.

In fact Auto ISO is an incredibly powerful feature... setting the max ISO and minimum shutter speed really increases your successful shot ratio in many dynamic scenarios where you can't be stopping to constantly change settings.

They are tools to help you get the best shots, nothing more and nothing less, and I find a lot of photographers seem to hold romantic notions that using them is somehow "cheating". Oh well, their loss!