5/10
Powerslide question
- Thread starter tbz_ck
- Start date
5/10
I take it you dont really have an understanding of how suspension geometry effects handling, and can be used to induce a bias towards over and understeer, in any car, be it FWD, RWD or AWD
Its not a master plan, its just basic safety. The suspension geometry of the vast majority of production cars is set to be biased towards understeer, because its safer for the average man on the street.
You only have to look at places like the Porsche forum on Pistonheads to see examples of this, many enthusiasts take their cars to get the factory alignment settings changed to make the handling more neutral, and dial out the inherent understeer in the factory alignment settings.
Its also well known in MR2 circles that the factory alignment setting were altered between the rev1/2 and rev3. The earlier models were more prone to oversteer, which gave them something of a widowmaker reputation. Toyota altered the geo settings in the later models to rectify this.
Bloomin nora gents, take it easy. I had no idea my innocent questions would provoke handbags at dawn!! 
I'll summarize then.
Powersliding != oversteer.
Powersliding possible in RWD and 4WD cars. Using oversteer + l33t skillz can produce the same effect on FWD cars but you need to be a jap drifting maniac with a wierd setup to sensibly invoke it.
That'll do for answers. At some stage I need to get myself a RWD car on a track day booked
/ps Waves at Olly
I'll summarize then.
Powersliding != oversteer.
Powersliding possible in RWD and 4WD cars. Using oversteer + l33t skillz can produce the same effect on FWD cars but you need to be a jap drifting maniac with a wierd setup to sensibly invoke it.
That'll do for answers. At some stage I need to get myself a RWD car on a track day booked
/ps Waves at Olly
Some say, he likes to talk rubbish....and that he in fact tells other people they're talking rubbish....
All we know is, he's called .....
No understanding, whatsoever
edit. So Some porsches understeered from the factory so they correct this. Cool.
Then some MR2's over steer which is especially lethal in a RWD car so then correct it but making it understeer, cool.
You've not really used main stream production cars in your examples. Does this apply to Mondeo's, Astra, 3 Series BMW's etc or does this just apply to cars that help prove your point?
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Dude it was mearly in jest
Anyway, I'm sure as an experienced 20 year old driver you've have way more real world and track time knowledge than me
Nice linkages
Anyway, I'm sure as an experienced 20 year old driver you've have way more real world and track time knowledge than me
See i thought this too. That's why i said "But if i'm wrong, please by all means correct me! We're all here to learn!
", but then you said stuff which just clearly wasn't true in any way, shape or form, so i set about finding a video of an experienced racing driver to prove you wrong too and i did (the Tiff video).See i thought this too. That's why i said "But if i'm wrong, please by all means correct me! We're all here to learn!
Hold your horses matey. Everything I've posted holds water. If you've not understood thats fine but don't try to rubbish what I've posted with some cheap shot. What exactly have I posted that wasnt 'true in an way shape or form'?
The Tiff video shows how to get the back end out on a FWD car. Exellent, but its not a powerslide, which you said a FWD car can do, in your first post. How did it proce ALL of what I've said is wrong?
edit. Tiff first words are 'the only problem with FWD's though is you can't really do power slides' lol
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Suspension Geometry is suspension geometry, sure different chassis will respond to changes differently than others, but overall the concept is the same.
After a few minutes with the guru of google:-
http://www.autoworld.com/apps/news/FullStory.asp?id=205
So in this case the chassis and suspension have been designed to be more neutral, but still on the understeering side of neutral.
I'm sure I could find more examples given time of how the handling characteristics of production cars are set conservatively to make them more accesible to the average driver
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Suspension Geometry is suspension geometry, sure different chassis will respond to changes differently than others, but overall the concept is the same.
After a few minutes with the guru of google:-
http://www.autoworld.com/apps/news/FullStory.asp?id=205
So in this case the chassis and suspension have been designed to be more neutral, but still on the understeering side of neutral.
I'm sure I could find more examples given time of how the handling characteristics of production cars are set conservatively to make them more accesible to the average driver
Fair play
I still believe its not as wide spread though, but conceed that its more comon than I thought.
Which was entirely rubbished by the points i made and supported by the tiff video.
We've already established that i said that with an undertone of sarcastic jest - more specifically "and there you'll have you very own little powerslide
". And i also clarified other points you seemed to have misunderstood.I never said it proved that everything you've said in this thread is rubbish!! I said it proves everything you said about the FWD oversteer was wrong! Which it was!
Anyway, i've got work to do now! Can't throw away a degree arguing over the internet with you about powerslides!
**** it.
Your first post was wrong, fact. You DID NOT, I repeat DID NOT say "when you want the back end to come out". You said "99% of the time if i'm going fairly quickly onto a roundabout, i'm turning and i lift off the throttle when i feel the front end understeering, the back end will come out." to which my answer made perfect sense.
Tiff Tiff Tiff. Very basic video for the general public, hardly a master class. He highlight a few key points and didn't go into all the other aspects of a slide.
No I was just trying to correct bad information.
Again made perfect sence. Tiff's video demonstrated how to slide the back end of a FWD car. To which I commeneted. "Erm, yeah how its not a powerslide". Again, you're miss quoting me, badly.
No its not your fault you incorrectly answered the OP's post. Everyone has to learn sometime.
Again, where doesnt Tiff's video prove me wrong. Read my posts carefully, maybe a couple of times, then come back and tell me where I've completely disagreed with a professional driver.
Explain that to the guys who drive FWD cars. with the power down throughout the corner. Granted they use the hand brake but I never said using the power wont straighten the car up. I said how it can be used to do both.
... Are you delibarately trying to misunderstand my posts?I don't lose the back end on 99% of the roundabouts i take during a day of driving. I was saying that when i WANT the backend to step out, lifting off, coupled with a bit of speed will give me oversteer, that
will pretty much disappear if i put my foot down again.
Your first post was wrong, fact. You DID NOT, I repeat DID NOT say "when you want the back end to come out". You said "99% of the time if i'm going fairly quickly onto a roundabout, i'm turning and i lift off the throttle when i feel the front end understeering, the back end will come out." to which my answer made perfect sense.
Tiff Tiff Tiff. Very basic video for the general public, hardly a master class. He highlight a few key points and didn't go into all the other aspects of a slide.
No I was just trying to correct bad information.
Again made perfect sence. Tiff's video demonstrated how to slide the back end of a FWD car. To which I commeneted. "Erm, yeah how its not a powerslide". Again, you're miss quoting me, badly.
No its not your fault you incorrectly answered the OP's post. Everyone has to learn sometime.
Again, where doesnt Tiff's video prove me wrong. Read my posts carefully, maybe a couple of times, then come back and tell me where I've completely disagreed with a professional driver.
Explain that to the guys who drive FWD cars. with the power down throughout the corner. Granted they use the hand brake but I never said using the power wont straighten the car up. I said how it can be used to do both.
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We've already established that i said that with an undertone of sarcastic jest - more specifically "and there you'll have you very own little powerslide
No you said that after to save face. There's no sarcasm in your initial post.
lol, just lol.
I said 99% of the times the back wont come out with LOOS unless you help it. In the video Tiff helps it with the flick. Infact he says you have to help it. Where's the facepalm.jpg when you need it? Tiff even says that without the handbrake you have to use the flick. Seriously can you not see that with every post you're making yourself look less knowledgable?
Anyway, i've got work to do now! Can't throw away a degree arguing over the internet with you about powerslides!
Good lad. Go and do your work rather than dig youself any deeper
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Orange Peel said:
This has to be the icing on the cake for me.
12 seconds into the video
Tiff said:
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Yeah you have to be going a decent speed to get LOOS. The handbrake just help back end out. Where as basis LOOS isnt when the rear slides its just when the car over steers when you lift off, if that makes sense