problem with concealed cistern (toilet) in a constant state of flushing / pouring water

R B Customs · 21 Oct 2011 at 20:25

hey guys,

I've been googling but it's very difficult to find words to describe the problem that return results.

I've got a concealed cistern toilet in my bathroom and the flusher has just malfunctioned. there's no resistance on either the 'big flush' or 'little' flush button and the toilet cistern is just constantly filling up and emptying simultaneously - as if the release valve is jammed open. The only way to stop it is to turn the mains water off

Has anyone got any what I can try? I've tried turning the mains off for ages, and then letting it trickle back on but had no joy. the whole thing is tiled in so I can't get to it.

cheers,
Rick

Maximum Triceratops · 21 Oct 2011 at 20:28

You will have to get in the cistern unfortunately, there is a plastic ball inside it that floats and raises up when the water fills up after a flush, once it reaches a certain height it closes the water flow.

andy_mk3 · 21 Oct 2011 at 20:32

I took one to bits a while back when we had a problem with ours, although it turns out there was a crack in the overflow pipe, causing the water to constantly trickle out. Only about £20 to replace the whole lot and it was a very easy job

Biohazard · 21 Oct 2011 at 20:33

R B Customs said:
Has anyone got any what I can try? I've tried turning the mains off for ages, and then letting it trickle back on but had no joy. the whole thing is tiled in so I can't get to it.

cheers,
Rick

No access at all? How old is the house?

Beans on toast Dave · 21 Oct 2011 at 20:55

Biohazard said:
No access at all? How old is the house?

yes there must be some kind of access?
or i would be moaning to whoever fitted it, if you can get access there should be a water stop valve in the water inlet pipe if its a newish decent install

pics would be good!

cheechm · 21 Oct 2011 at 21:00

Usually there should be a small slot for an allen key or similar on the underneath of the button assembly. Taking it off usually gives access to the cistern.

R B Customs · 21 Oct 2011 at 22:27

the property is a new build, about 1 and a half years old. It's a set of 21 appartments. there's absolutly no access panels what-so-ever. The shower is on the same wall and also has concealed workings.

the other bathroom is the same.

the only stop valve is the main stopvalve which stops all water across the property - there's nothing to isolate baths, taps, toilets or anything.

It's rented but our letting agent (can't deal with land lord directly) is that special kind of useless and has not replied to me at all. (this happenned yesterday)

cheechm, there's no sign of keyhole (even a tiny one) on the button assebly. I thought the whole thing would unscrew by turning it with the palm of my hand but it doesn't.

It's utterly stupid design. I bet they were sold as 'maintainance free' or something silly. These appartments were never intended to be rented out, so I guess they were installed to give a better finish and maintainance would be int he hands of whoever owns the property. the suites are all made by 'Sanitana' btw

Where do I stand with getting work done by the land-lord? as far as I can see this should be the landlords responsibility to fix, and that it should be done in a timely fashion? any advice here would be great.

here's a pic, thanks for the replies so far.

Fuzz · 21 Oct 2011 at 22:40

Absolutely the Landlords problem

Bennie-Mac · 21 Oct 2011 at 22:41

My toilet does this sometimes, usually hammering the button really hard sorts it out although sometimes you need to lift the cistern lid so it can uncatch itself. In my case it just seems to be a cheapo flush assembly that sometimes catches when you flush, nothing actually wrong with the internals so to speak just some shoddy tolerances.

Slade2 · 21 Oct 2011 at 22:46

Ok, first of all I would make a record of your water meter reading (if your on a meter) I would then inform the letting agents of the problem and tell them you have taken a meeting reading and plan to invoice them for the cost of the water that is being wasted until a repair is effected. That might get you someone out a bit quicker to fix the issue. I know most of the toilets of this type will have some kind of turn off value on the pipework somewere. ( A flat head screwdriver on/off value in the pipeline) If it doesnt then the plumber that installed it cut a few corners and did it on the cheap which is quite common in these types of hidden systems. I have had this type of problem with a set of toilets in a building I premise manage and after a number of them failed I told the installer I wanted them all replacing becuase they were defective installs. We have a large panel that is actually tiled and then fitted on the wall and we used some suckers to get it on/off. I wouldnt do anything and do as I said above and contact the letting agent and tell them as above.

Biohazard · 21 Oct 2011 at 23:07

Either which way they are going to have to take some tiles off the wall... idiotic thing to do if you ask me. I'm not sure if that's compliant with building regs either.

TNGL · 21 Oct 2011 at 23:09

Biohazard said:
Either which way they are going to have to take some tiles off the wall... idiotic thing to do if you ask me. I'm not sure if that's compliant with building regs either.

It must be the fashion these days

R B Customs · 21 Oct 2011 at 23:31

Bennie-Mac said:
My toilet does this sometimes, usually hammering the button really hard sorts it out although sometimes you need to lift the cistern lid so it can uncatch itself. In my case it just seems to be a cheapo flush assembly that sometimes catches when you flush, nothing actually wrong with the internals so to speak just some shoddy tolerances.

I've tried hammering on it as much as I dared, then i though 'screw it' and hammered on it more than I dared before. I've even shoulder-barged the wall to try and shake it up a littlbit and free anything that's stuck. obviosuly nothing has worked

(just had another go now)

Slade2 said:
Ok, first of all I would make a record of your water meter reading (if your on a meter) I would then inform the letting agents of the problem and tell them you have taken a meeting reading and plan to invoice them for the cost of the water that is being wasted until a repair is effected. That might get you someone out a bit quicker to fix the issue. I know most of the toilets of this type will have some kind of turn off value on the pipework somewere. ( A flat head screwdriver on/off value in the pipeline) If it doesnt then the plumber that installed it cut a few corners and did it on the cheap which is quite common in these types of hidden systems. I have had this type of problem with a set of toilets in a building I premise manage and after a number of them failed I told the installer I wanted them all replacing becuase they were defective installs. We have a large panel that is actually tiled and then fitted on the wall and we used some suckers to get it on/off. I wouldnt do anything and do as I said above and contact the letting agent and tell them as above.

I've noted the meter reading down and will keep this in mind. I've double, and triple checked for any valves that will isolate it and there's not even any exposed pipe-work, nevermind stop valves. none of the plumbing in here is fitted with stop valves as I found when I was installing my dishwasher. as someone has pointed out - this has got to be against building regs?

sounds like I'm at a loss until the letting agent gets through to the land-lord and so on. I'm going to ring up again tomorrow and get them to take some action as this turning the mains on everytime I want to use some water, theen back off again routine is getting old.

if is was my own property I'd have had the tiles off by now and had it fixed! I bet when the tiles do come off that they don't have spares to replace them with; that's gonna look ace!

Thanks again guys, I'll let you know how I get on.

Rick

Participant · 22 Oct 2011 at 08:09

What's on the other side? Access might be from the rear.

Zip · 22 Oct 2011 at 08:36

Robbie G said:
What's on the other side? Access might be from the rear.

wannabedamned · 22 Oct 2011 at 08:45

Robbie G said:
What's on the other side? Access might be from the rear.

It's usually better way.

Wicksta · 22 Oct 2011 at 09:17

Maximum Triceratops said:
You will have to get in the cistern unfortunately, there is a plastic ball inside it that floats and raises up when the water fills up after a flush, once it reaches a certain height it closes the water flow.

Most toilets don't work like this these days, especially in a new build. It's all one self contained unit now. They seem pretty unreliable because I had the same thing happen, a plastic bit broke after just 3 years so the internal float didn't stop the flow, I had to remove the cistern and put a new unit in (about 15 quid).

coopersim · 22 Oct 2011 at 09:18

At the bottom of the flush assembly is a piece of plastic which acts as a seal, sounds like this has perished and split which is causing the constant flushing, had this happen a few times now. Nightmare access though!

Efour · 22 Oct 2011 at 10:30

Jesus Christ who on earth built that!!

I have exactly the same toilet/cistern combo put in by a fitter, i thought it was great very nice until the never ending nightmares of the cistern flooding/endlessly draining at least once every 6 months.

inlet valves sticking, flush valve not closing properly. Ill never get one of this design again.

Even worse i cracked the toilet seat cover, dropped a cordless drill onto it.. (dont ask) because they are bespoke ----- 80 quid to get a new seat from Germany.... and that was after some serious shopping around... The fitting company offered a replacement for 120 quid.... how i told them to do one..

Good luck... If u do get into it, give it a good clean, any limescale buildup in it too can cause friction and stop the drop valve thing running smooth. I had to WD40 my bloody toilet last time...

I hate this toilet !

bitslice · 22 Oct 2011 at 10:56

Hah hah, I always wondered why people install stuff like that, bound to go wrong at some point and then you have to rip the wall off.

Sorry OP