PS3 vs 360 : A developers POV

599 euro for the rest of europe is this to include UK?

Last i was aware the euro usually operates around 65p

599x65p certainly isnt £325 and you can be assured the UK will have higher import duty tarrifs and the 17.5% VAT so i fail to see how £400+ isnt a possible UK price.

Edit ah see above
 
Haven't bothered to read the whole thread so this might have already been said.

I'd take this article with a pinch of salt simply for the reason that the person who wrote it is anonymous. It could have been written by MS or just a deranged fanboy. If it had a name associated with it we could verify he really is a developer for both consoles.

I think it's clear that a 360 will be much easier to code for. The question is, does the PS3 have a big enough performance advantage to justify the extra difficulty in coding? Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Who knows.
 
Kreeeee said:
Then I'll hold out until they dip to £325 then :)
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Same here... By that time there should be a good few games out. Hopefully MGS4 and FF XIII will be released by then
 
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Smit said:
I disagree. The general public will see the PS3 in Gaming shops, also in the shops that sell more of a variety of items the PS3 will be sitting with the rest of the game consoles. Hence the general public will see it first and foremost as a games console.

Also the general public is used to the brand Playstation so they will see it as a gaming machine nothing else unless they actually know the technical sides of it which lets face it, the general public do not care about technical aspects.
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So you dont think that Sony Centres and general AV / TV shops will display it in a different fashion?

Not to mention advertising campaigns will no doubt be used to push Blu-ray exclusively , and potentially computer like operation also

I dont honestly think Sony will only advertise it in its gaming sense


I dont really see playing an HD quality movie or outputting mp3's etc as "technical specs"

Yes the name will help to attract rather than hinder in my opinion but who knows you could well be right :D
 
FrankJH said:
So you dont think that Sony Centres and general AV / TV shops will display it in a different fashion?

Not to mention advertising campaigns will no doubt be used to push Blu-ray exclusively , and potentially computer like operation also

I dont honestly think Sony will only advertise it in its gaming sense

I dont really see playing an HD quality movie or outputting mp3's etc as "technical specs"

Yes the name will help to attract rather than hinder in my opinion but who knows you could well be right :D
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Am interesting point,

As a business model, they need it to sell as a games machine surely, since they 'loose' money per console, they need to make it up on the games, and these are where they reap most of the money.
They would probably have to sell 10 BR Films for the same kickback as a £50 game,

I can imagine the Sony centre pushing their expensive BR player at you if you want BR, they make money on the Player..

As for the Linux side, it's an interesting addition, but if anyone makes anything decent out of it (i.e. a standalone uber media streamer front end) then Sony will just lock it down, leaving it at best available only to the hacker/illegal user.
 
McManicMan said:
they really should have dropped Blu-ray

loved one of the reply's on that article:

The next gen doesn't start until Sony says so, and it starts...

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more info here
http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/1/17/6658
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erm, much as I think m$ is on to a winner, but that article is fundamentaly flawed! In fact, I'm smewhat shocked that a website like that could come out with such an amazingly inacurate article!
For a start, it manages to totally ignore the fact that PS3 is CLV whereas xb360 is CAV!
From my understanding, and I'm no expert, but xb360 can only manage 12x transfer speed when reading data from the outside of the disk, and drops to somewhere nearer 5x speed when nearing the centre of the disk. Whereas, PS3 is at a constant ~8x (DVD equivalent speed) throughout the disk......this may not maker BR faster, but it negates a huge amount of the advantage as hinted at in that article, which appears to indicate that DVD runs at 12x equivalent speed throughout.
Also to be taken into account is a DVDrom's performance hit when reading from a duel layer disk (ie DVD9) - this performance hit does not hit BR to anywhere near such a degree.
 
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Demon said:
Am interesting point,

As a business model, they need it to sell as a games machine surely, since they 'loose' money per console, they need to make it up on the games, and these are where they reap most of the money.
They would probably have to sell 10 BR Films for the same kickback as a £50 game,

I can imagine the Sony centre pushing their expensive BR player at you if you want BR, they make money on the Player..

As for the Linux side, it's an interesting addition, but if anyone makes anything decent out of it (i.e. a standalone uber media streamer front end) then Sony will just lock it down, leaving it at best available only to the hacker/illegal user.
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I can totally agree with what you are saying - but dont you reckon its more important to get units in homes first?

Aim it at parents and adults (because of the cost) and remember Sony will still profit from BR software sales, either just from being BR or from Sony/MGM or Columbia Pictures films (I know they are different divisions of Sony but personally I think getting units sold is primary especially when there isnt that many games out initally)

So initially we may see more general advertising and then when more and more games come out the advertising gets more diversified.

Also consider that the general price of these games is going to be £45-£50 a pop, until some time down the line when Sony release a budget line. This is a good 20% more than PS2 games at launch and very few kids can afford those prices or parents afford to buy for their kids so I think it would be a mistake to primarily advertise to this market first off.

I have to admit I have no idea at all the comparison of profit for a game compared to a film, but films will be the wider audience and will take less time to produce and release compared to games (even without considering the immense back catalogue)

I also have a thought that as Blu-ray itself was actually invented by Sony electronics devision - rather than SCEE - some PS3 sales cash will be going back to this part of the corporation , so another reason to widen the scope asap. Not to mention this drive is one of the primary costs of the whole PS3

Its also possible that SCEE bought the drives as an external business would and paid cash in one way or another to Sony (electronics or whoever) which would then put all the debt of the console under one roof, in which case all the advertising would be centred in the fashion you described. There are pro's and con's to each - maybe a financier could tell us more which is better and why hahahaha

This is just "educated" guessing but it seems reasonable dont you reckon?
 
Remember this?
Mr Latte said:
He got off light, really... Ive actually got fed up doing it.... :D
And know the rest of you are pretty much as fed up reading all our BS as we are typing it, LOL

No worries thier will always be another that comes along some day and takes the bait....

Joebob you are free...
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Mr Latte said:
Oh do one would you, you would argue over anything.

Sorry you said you woudnt use windows at home was that what i was meant to say...

I hope Sony brick your import PS3 with some firmware to see how much you love them then.... Thats it im done with petti BS
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Gotcha ;) it took a while, but it was worth it :D
 
FrankJH said:
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Seems reasonable but I agree with Demon that in Sony stores if someone walks in looking for a BluRay player then they will try and get them to buy a dedicated BR player (I assume Sony have one coming out/already out?) since it will result in a profit for them.

Sure BR player numbers are very important to Sony but you'd have to imagine that if they could get someone to buy BOTH a PS3 & a dedicated BR player then they will, doesn't make business sense not to.

I am pretty confident (99%) that general electronics stores will place the PS3 with the rest of the games section, they don't even put the PC games next to the PCs in those shops :confused: They put all the PC games next to the consoles which I assume is a dedicated gaming section of the store?
 
Smit said:
Seems reasonable but I agree with Demon that in Sony stores if someone walks in looking for a BluRay player then they will try and get them to buy a dedicated BR player (I assume Sony have one coming out/already out?) since it will result in a profit for them.

Sure BR player numbers are very important to Sony but you'd have to imagine that if they could get someone to buy BOTH a PS3 & a dedicated BR player then they will, doesn't make business sense not to.

I am pretty confident (99%) that general electronics stores will place the PS3 with the rest of the games section, they don't even put the PC games next to the PCs in those shops :confused: They put all the PC games next to the consoles which I assume is a dedicated gaming section of the store?
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You may be right but you are comparing something at £425 to a dedicated machine at nearer £1000 (the Sony one thats already released) - I cant see many customers buying both, and in a Sony centre they are making profit anyway so it matters not and at 1/2 price they could sell double the amount of ps3's just as BR players - so why wouldnt they...unless they didnt have stock of course

It will certainly be interesting to see, but I would expect the big department stores to prominantly be showing off BR software on huge tv's with the PS3, even if its a dedicated stand with a rack of Blu ray software next door.

With another one in the gaming section showing off motorstorm or somesuch (if they have a games section of course)

I just have a feeling it will be showing up in a lot more types of store than a traditional console thats all - I may be completely wrong however
 
FrankJH said:
You may be right but you are comparing something at £425 to a dedicated machine at nearer £1000 (the Sony one thats already released) - I cant see many customers buying both, and in a Sony centre they are making profit anyway so it matters not and at 1/2 price they could sell double the amount of ps3's just as BR players - so why wouldnt they...unless they didnt have stock of course

It will certainly be interesting to see, but I would expect the big department stores to prominantly be showing off BR software on huge tv's with the PS3, even if its a dedicated stand with a rack of Blu ray software next door.

With another one in the gaming section showing off motorstorm or somesuch (if they have a games section of course)

I just have a feeling it will be showing up in a lot more types of store than a traditional console thats all - I may be completely wrong however
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I can see what you are saying, and I think we can only 'guess' at a business model, but Sony Centres need to make money, and selling PS3's makes them nothing at all, so unless Sony 'force' them in a very draconian way I can't see the incentive for the Sony Centre to tow the line, they are franchises after all..
 
Demon said:
I can see what you are saying, and I think we can only 'guess' at a business model, but Sony Centres need to make money, and selling PS3's makes them nothing at all, so unless Sony 'force' them in a very draconian way I can't see the incentive for the Sony Centre to tow the line, they are franchises after all..
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But from the perspective of the person who would be selling the consoles/BD player, the PS3 would be an easier sell so it would depend a lot on the individual salesperson and the instructions given from their immediate boss etc. It may well be that they would rather make less profit on an easier sell rather than trying to push a more expensive item only to possibly lose the sale while the customer goes of to think about it!
 
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Joebob said:
But from the perspective of the person who would be selling the consoles/BD player, the PS3 would be an easier sell so it would depend a lot on the individual salesperson and the instructions given from their immediate boss etc. It may well be that they woudl rather make less profit on an easier sell rather than trying to push a more expensive item only to possibly lose the sale while the customer goes of to think about it!
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That was one angle - the other would be that also the wider public is interested in movies and not games, and seeing the PS3 showing the latest cinema releases (even if they are previews etc) on a 1080p Bravia will take people's breath away - admittedly I havent seen hd-dvd on a bravia but Im not suggesting this will be worse it just wouldnt be shown in a Sony shop :D

I would also think that while each shop doesnt profit as much from a console as it would in % terms from the software, it still makes some profit.

Not stoping them having two on display either, one having an active playable game using one display the other being used as a blu-ray display
 
Currently the PS3 is one of the best Blu Ray players going and is a lot faster than some stand alone units (samsung for instance) also not suffering with JAVA problems some of the stand alone models have issues with.

If i was after a Blu Ray player its by far the thing i would purchase...
Of course get a good remote too.

As for Sony centres are you guys serious they will probably have the thing connected up via composite...
Going by the talk on AVF most Sony stores and employees havn't got a clue
 
Mr Latte said:
As for Sony centres are you guys serious they will probably have the thing connected up via composite...
Going by the talk on AVF most Sony stores and employees havn't got a clue
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I cant see this happening - I am sure Sony will make sure its being shown off to the best of its capabilities, its not like its just any other product
 
FrankJH said:
I cant see this happening - I am sure Sony will make sure its being shown off to the best of its capabilities, its not like its just any other product
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It hardly matters as Sony stores sell a very small portion of their own actual electrical brown goods sales, simply because their prices usually are beaten by other independents or for that matter other nationwide stores.

You seem to be unaware the amount of people on AVF that complained regarding the launch of their 46x 1080p HDTV only to find it displayed via SD and poorly configured in many stores and that was with a 4k product.
Their stores are not renowned for their brilliance although im sure some flagship stores and certain branches are better than many across the country.
The consoles not going to sell in amazing numbers until its price drops or at least titles like MGS etc appear. Only a small percentage actually care or want for Blu Ray at this time this was even the case with the USA launch so i dont expect any miracles over here where its going to cost even more.
 
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