Purchasing Land (Farmer)

[kai]

Has anyone purchased land to extend their garden from a farmer or neighbour?

The land in question is on the rear of the house and is a protected woodland. It has a Tree Preservation Order and several trees are tagged.

I managed to get the land owner records and contacted the farmer directly. He inspected the land yesterday and admitted the land is no good to him as he is unable to do anything with due to the trees and environmental restrictions. Thus, he is willing to sell the land, for what he said would be “the going rate for garden land”

I have roughly measured the amount of land and it’s equal to 65 sqm. I will be bringing several trees (100 ft +) into my garden that I will be unable to do anything with apart from trim and cut away the saplings and ultimately make a feature.

For the next steps, he would like me to get a land surveyor to mark out what I want so we discuss costs, and proceed with an agreement, legal and cost.

Having never gone through this process before, does anyone have any tips or guidance? I have no idea how much the going rate is for (non-development) land is.

 

[kai]

You may need to consider planning as well, although I am unsure of whether there are any differences in this circumstance between Wales and England. In England the change of use from agricultural land to garden would constitute a material change of use of land requiring planning permission. This can be challenging to obtain.

This rule also applies in Wales. However, this is not agricultural land. It would be woodland. It looks like two different laws apply, but Google is weak on answers for this.

 

[kai]

As it's not agricultural land then you may be surprised by the sorts of money "garden land" sells for; purely because it can add substantial value to the property. That being said as there are existing tree protection orders in place it removes some liability from him which is definitely a negotiating point.

Thank you, during our discussion yesterday - i mentioned i would naturally be holding liability on protected trees in my boundary (bringing 5 into my land) and thus, if they fall ( being 100 feet plus), i would be liable. His comment was, even now i am liable to a certain extent as its classed an act of god if one of them was to fall. If any of them fall, it would cause catastrophic damage to my home. I was a little shocked at this, as he said he has taken out some type of special insurance to protect him.

I have the Chartered surveyor coming this afternoon to get an idea of his costs.

But i was thinking something like £30 - £50 to the farmer (SQM) plus covering his legal fees.

 

[kai]

If i could buy 65sqm at £50/sqm I'd bite his hand off! Obviously depends on area etc but as I've seen a few other posts on your house presumably you'll enjoy it/don't intend to sell soon.

The land is completely useless to the current owner. He openly admitted that.

If he highballs, he will end up with nothing as no one else can purchase the land. The entire area is protected woodland.

Interested to hear the price....I'm betting it's loads more then that .... only based on everything seems to cost at least 3 times what I think it would...

Yes, unfortunately I have had to pay a surveyor today to draw up plans and measure it out correctly for ordinance, etc. I can then go back to the owner with the exact measurements. Unfortunately it’s going cost me £400 to find this out

there is no plan to move anytime soon. However this opens up huge possibilities for a double extension with entire glass fronted development overlooking woodland

 

[kai]

Be interested to see how much he lets it go for. I wouldn't bother selling unless it was 5 figures at least but I guess it depends where you are etc.

I have the survey report back next week as they are completing the work on Friday. We are only really talking about 65 square meters. NOT 65x65 (like 4225 - 1 acre.) We are discussing, 0.016 of an acre.

The impression, i got was the land is completely useless to him and he will never ever get development on it. He also has to maintain the area if i call him out due to a fallen tree etc. The cost of tree' surgeons plus he has to apply to the council each time due to trees tagging and TPO's. There are newts, bats etc all sorts of restrictions for him.

He admitted he would be glad to get shot of it (especially my plot as i have 5 large trees on the boundary line)

However, i could be very wrong. Personally, i am not willing to give more than £8K (as i simply wont get the money back as it stands without significant investment and redevelopment).

Be worth talking to your local planning department first before spending money on anything and sound them out about the change of use to domestic land.

Its classed as woodland, i am fine to have it as a domestic garden, its only for agriculture this applies. It shows this on the land registry also.

 

[kai]

Well, i had the phone call and "The Conversation"

£2,000 and i cover all legal fees

land surveyor is here Friday. Time to contact solicitor today and see costs i am hoping its less than £500.

If i could buy 65sqm at £50/sqm I'd bite his hand off! Obviously depends on area etc but as I've seen a few other posts on your house presumably you'll enjoy it/don't intend to sell soon.

I bit his hand off.

 

[kai]

Good job! Now as @Psycho Sonny suggested, drill the stump and fill it with tree killer. /s

I was told, by farmer i will never get planning permission to do anything. Its woodland, but there are lots of grey areas so i dont think i can officially plant grass etc. but i want to maintain the woodland (so just clear the rubbish, level it off) by adding some sleepers, gravel then just keeping it rustic.

 

[kai]

It will come as a separate deed to the house.

So far we are looking at:

Land £2,000
Surveyor and Boundary / land registry compliant drawings £350+VAT
Solicitor £750 - £1,000 (covering farmers fees as well)

We want it as woodland area. We are going to fence the entire garden but have an entrance to this area as a bit of secret garden. Mini-digger to churn the soil and get rid of all the brambles etc It will be a perfect area as we have a child on the way. It's very own little woodland

This however is going to be a BIG project, as soon as the land completes we plan on getting the double extension added as we had the floating raft installed when doing the single extension 2 years ago. The view from the back bedrooms, will now be amazing.

 

[kai]

Yes, but he was the only one showing an interest in buying it so it's not like he was competing with anyone else. If the OP is happy with the purchase then that is all that matters.

The land will make a significant difference to us. The trees are under TPO however this does not stop me fencing around the area or clearing the entire woodland of weeds and brambles. There is also nothing wrong with me putting wild seed mix down or even 100's of lavender plants.

We have our first child on the way. Having a little woodland area in the garden is going be pretty special for a child growing up. This is a significant plot of land (in comparison to the site size) especially for £2K. Even pushing the fence back will be huge as my entire living room extension is glass fronted so its made the view even better

Oh, and it looks like the measurement is more around 100+ sqm if i run the fence line down the entire boundary. The measurement i provided was only for the top end ( i made the mistake). The land owner, said that was fine as he had already determined this was the case.

 

[kai]

Update**

Everything has now been approved by the local authority (this took near 10 weeks). They have agreed that 5M be used to reduce the height of all trees located within the woodland to the rear of my property.

The arborist starts work tomorrow. They will be reducing 6 alder trees down by 5M and fell 2 dead.

Summary to date

• 8 Alders fell or significant reduction. (£1070)
  
• OST land drawings complete for legal (£385) including full survey boundary lines
  
• Solicitor starts process this week - land registry, paperwork to current owner etc for singature. (Total £600)
  
• Transfer of land agreed price based on OST drawings (ive settled on 106 SQM) (£2,000) total.

 

[kai]

and not one pic of the woodland area - come on op get that sorted! also, well done.

I was just about to say. We need pictures. Maybe a little walk around on your newly acquired land.

I dropped the final paperwork off with the solicitors today. The land owner just now needs to sign and the solicitors to update the land registry.

Please note there is a LOT of work to be done. It's a woodland so things are extremely messy at the moment.

Later this year, we will be having some ground work done to remove all the weeds and brambles, and build the land up a little and several ton of bark put down with weed membrane. It's not going to be be manufactured but will have arches leading into the area's, with walk paths and lots of lavender and such.


Current setup

Dead trees cut down this week and 4-5m taken off all alder in the land i am purchasing.



I have added a blue line to give an indication of the new boundary. I basically take it right up to a small brook.

 

[kai]

nice. lot of work there but that's gonna be awesome when it's finished.

I have been estimated about 4-5 days work

All the fancy stuff like arches leading into the paths etc, will come over time. At the moment its just about making it look presentable and to be included into the house (value) with having a fence around the area.

 

[kai]

Update**

This has been a total nightmare. But after perseverance i got the official letters today all deeds have been transferred. Everything was signed back in November. However, following attempts to obtain the Land Registry titles by the solicitor on the day of completion of the transfer, it become apparent that the land that i was are acquiring was held within two separate title numbers. It turned out the original housing developer still held land beyond my fence line.

Long story short, i have been working with all parties and a land survey to update the drawings. The original developer agreed to sell me the land for £1.

This might give a better idea based on the above. All in all i have secured just over 100 sqm for £2,001.


Now i have the fun task of trying to find a reputable landscaper based on my designs to start the work.

 

[kai]

Things like this often are a nightmare and take an unnecessarily long time.


Who did your design and how much did you pay if you dont mind me asking ?
Can you share the design on here ? I always like looking at things like this, I need inspiration for my own garden.

Design at the moment is a little bit all of the place, its more in my head as a vision and i have stuff mapped out i have done. I just have not yet had time to put in 5D planner and do renders. Lots of Pinterest items i have saved down but i am going for more woodland style. Sleepers and lots of bark as i want to keep it a woodland, similar to the rest of the garden. This however will be sectioned off and have two zones

1. Somewhere that's a little bit special for my daughter. I want a section to be built out as she grows up she will have a large wooden playhouse.

2. Pizza zone... a proper circle setting we can use.

 

[kai]

I would say that's a bargain for that price. Looks like it pretty much doubles the size of your garden?

Yeah, maybe more. I had a landscaper call in yesterday to look at costing the job. He was seriously shocked at the size. He said this will make a HUGE difference.

However, the original land owner is happy for me take another significant chunk at (no cost) but that means bringing in a water easement/brook onto my land. This is a stock image, but its very, very similar.

My wife works for a water company - she has advised against us doing this should we have any problems (blockage, etc). However, our fence will be right up against this so we now have the sound of running water

 

[kai]

There's also the caveat of flooding - unless it's significantly below your garden level.

Where i grew up, some houses round the corner had a brook/stream running through their back garden - was a lot smaller than the picture above. Although a rarity, it did flood once causing a lot of damage.

Its a good 8 feet below garden level. A condition for the original house contractors was to build this up and make good prior to development. Its a water easement/brook that has been lined with boulders and rock.

In 9 years i have never seen it even go above 1.5 feet . However, i rather just not take any chances.

 

[kai]

take plenty of before, during and after photos please. I'm interested to see how this plays out.

Can't believe you've only spent £2k so far. Local builders round here want £1k just to lay 6 patio slabs lol

I will keep the thread updated. However, i have spent a little more than just the land cost.

• 8 alders tree's fell or significant reduction (up to 4-6m). (£1070)
  
• OST land drawings complete for legal (£385) including full survey boundary lines. + Additional £100 after finding out two deeds (£485)
  
• Solicitor fees. (Total £670)
  
• Transfer of land (Ive settled on 106 SQM, but have the option to take as much as maybe 200 SQM) (£2,001)
  
  £4,226.00 to date.

*i am just hoping the additional land will add 10% more to the value of the house.

Estimated:

• £2.5 - 3K landscaping and fencing
• £800 pizza oven and kitchen area
• £1,000 additional garden furniture
  
• £2,000 tree house & wooden climbing frame/set for daughter

 

[kai]

Are you in a position to buy the land now? If get it all sorted now incase anyone changes their mind!

I now own the land. There is no position for anyone to change minds. I have the full deeds (TP1) all setup and in my name. This was made official this week.

 

[kai]

Sorry I meant the complete 200m2? Have you purchased all of the available land?

Will be watching this with great interest...the treehouse will be awesome. Do you watch the Sarah beeny new life in the country? They made quite a big one, no idea on cost but was epic.

Yes, all done.

The tree-house is unlikely looking at it more closely (the trees have TPO's).

Over the years i have done a fair amount of work in the garden myself. I nearly spat my coffee out this morning when the first quote arrived.

£4,000 - 4 days work, hardcore and level with perimeter fence. It looks like due to the pandemic builders, landscapers can pull numbers out of the air and still be in demand

 

[kai]

Hi, we're interested in buying a little bit of the field next to us, so couple of q's. The field next to us currently has a mortgage on it, so I think we'd need to get a release of charge from the mortgage company. I'm guessing you're fields you bought didn't have any mortgage on them so was more straightforward? What exactly did the solicitor do? Is it something you could have done yourself?

No idea sorry, the land i had was freehold. It was owned outright and had no monterey value owed to anyone. I suppose you could technically do everything your self, however dealing with land is fairly complex. I wouldn't want the hassle for the sake of £600 quid.