Purchasing Land (Farmer)

[kai]

Has anyone purchased land to extend their garden from a farmer or neighbour?

The land in question is on the rear of the house and is a protected woodland. It has a Tree Preservation Order and several trees are tagged.

I managed to get the land owner records and contacted the farmer directly. He inspected the land yesterday and admitted the land is no good to him as he is unable to do anything with due to the trees and environmental restrictions. Thus, he is willing to sell the land, for what he said would be “the going rate for garden land”

I have roughly measured the amount of land and it’s equal to 65 sqm. I will be bringing several trees (100 ft +) into my garden that I will be unable to do anything with apart from trim and cut away the saplings and ultimately make a feature.

For the next steps, he would like me to get a land surveyor to mark out what I want so we discuss costs, and proceed with an agreement, legal and cost.

Having never gone through this process before, does anyone have any tips or guidance? I have no idea how much the going rate is for (non-development) land is.

 

[roadie]

You may need to consider planning as well, although I am unsure of whether there are any differences in this circumstance between Wales and England. In England the change of use from agricultural land to garden would constitute a material change of use of land requiring planning permission. This can be challenging to obtain.

 

[kai]

You may need to consider planning as well, although I am unsure of whether there are any differences in this circumstance between Wales and England. In England the change of use from agricultural land to garden would constitute a material change of use of land requiring planning permission. This can be challenging to obtain.

This rule also applies in Wales. However, this is not agricultural land. It would be woodland. It looks like two different laws apply, but Google is weak on answers for this.

 

[bJN]

As it's not agricultural land then you may be surprised by the sorts of money "garden land" sells for; purely because it can add substantial value to the property. That being said as there are existing tree protection orders in place it removes some liability from him which is definitely a negotiating point.

 

[kai]

As it's not agricultural land then you may be surprised by the sorts of money "garden land" sells for; purely because it can add substantial value to the property. That being said as there are existing tree protection orders in place it removes some liability from him which is definitely a negotiating point.

Thank you, during our discussion yesterday - i mentioned i would naturally be holding liability on protected trees in my boundary (bringing 5 into my land) and thus, if they fall ( being 100 feet plus), i would be liable. His comment was, even now i am liable to a certain extent as its classed an act of god if one of them was to fall. If any of them fall, it would cause catastrophic damage to my home. I was a little shocked at this, as he said he has taken out some type of special insurance to protect him.

I have the Chartered surveyor coming this afternoon to get an idea of his costs.

But i was thinking something like £30 - £50 to the farmer (SQM) plus covering his legal fees.

 

[Bobmunkhouse]

But i was thinking something like £30 - £50 to the farmer (SQM) plus covering his legal fees.

Interested to hear the price....I'm betting it's loads more then that .... only based on everything seems to cost at least 3 times what I think it would...

 

[Buffman]

If i could buy 65sqm at £50/sqm I'd bite his hand off! Obviously depends on area etc but as I've seen a few other posts on your house presumably you'll enjoy it/don't intend to sell soon.

 

[kai]

If i could buy 65sqm at £50/sqm I'd bite his hand off! Obviously depends on area etc but as I've seen a few other posts on your house presumably you'll enjoy it/don't intend to sell soon.

The land is completely useless to the current owner. He openly admitted that.

If he highballs, he will end up with nothing as no one else can purchase the land. The entire area is protected woodland.

Interested to hear the price....I'm betting it's loads more then that .... only based on everything seems to cost at least 3 times what I think it would...

Yes, unfortunately I have had to pay a surveyor today to draw up plans and measure it out correctly for ordinance, etc. I can then go back to the owner with the exact measurements. Unfortunately it’s going cost me £400 to find this out

there is no plan to move anytime soon. However this opens up huge possibilities for a double extension with entire glass fronted development overlooking woodland

 

[dlockers]

The land is completely useless to the current owner. He openly admitted that.

If he highballs, he will end up with nothing as no one else can purchase the land. The entire area is protected woodland.



Yes, unfortunately I have had to pay a surveyor today to draw up plans and measure it out correctly for ordinance, etc. I can then go back to the owner with the exact measurements. Unfortunately it’s going cost me £400 to find this out

there is no plan to move anytime soon. However this opens up huge possibilities for a double extension with entire glass fronted development overlooking woodland

It is worth sharing a ball park figure with him before going too far. If he is expected orders of magnitude higher you can save yourself £400. Don't doubt how much a farmer will value land, unusable or otherwise

 

[taB]

Don't doubt how much a farmer will value land, unusable or otherwise

Yes. It's still land at the end of the day and it's his for now. For example if subsidies change and they specify to get x from the government you need a certain amount of woodland / scrub land then it could become very useful to them going forwards.

 

[Jez]

This seems way undervalued to me, I assumed you’d be offering a fair few tens of thousands and I wonder if he’d be expecting the same. Perhaps my expectations are skewed with being in Oxfordshire but the amenity value of the land to you is how he’ll value it. Around here I’d think the price would be lucky to be in 5 figures given what you’ve mentioned about your outlook and development opportunity it affords.

I’d speak to him about ballpark estimations first, as mentioned above.

Interested to hear how it pans out, keep the thread updated

 

[sja360]

This seems way undervalued to me, I assumed you’d be offering a fair few tens of thousands and I wonder if he’d be expecting the same. Perhaps my expectations are skewed with being in Oxfordshire but the amenity value of the land to you is how he’ll value it. Around here I’d think the price would be lucky to be in 5 figures given what you’ve mentioned about your outlook and development opportunity it affords.

I’d speak to him about ballpark estimations first, as mentioned above.

Interested to hear how it pans out, keep the thread updated

While I wouldn't expect it to be £10-£20,000 I'd expect maybe upto £5k. while you think your doing him a favour but actually it's not a big deal if he doesn't sell it either.

 

[sovietspybob]

for what its worth we're also in Wales and we paid 30k for an extra 1/4 of an acre to double the size of our garden about 4 years ago. That was bought from our neighbour who has about 4-5acres in total and was already classed as garden so no change of use etc, that seemed to be a very good deal at the time. We'd already bought the original 1/4 acre from them to build our house on and they're old family friends so it was in their interest to sell to us and not a randomer who might want to build something else on the land.

I'd have thought it boils down to the worth of the land to the farmer, it could be significant moving forward as he may need to meet quotas for unused areas for nature etc.

Be worth talking to your local planning department first before spending money on anything and sound them out about the change of use to domestic land.

 

[Jez]

While I wouldn't expect it to be £10-£20,000 I'd expect maybe upto £5k. while you think your doing him a favour but actually it's not a big deal if he doesn't sell it either.

Personally i think this is way off, but i'd be interested in the outcome Fully appreciate that i don't know the market there, but £5k doesn't seem worth the farmer even entering discussion/hassle does it? let alone losing the land itself. The amenity value of the land is great, the poster acknowledges this, it will enable him to develop his property.

 

[BUDFORCE]

Plus you've approached the farmer, not the other way around.

 

[soundb0y]

Be interested to see how much he lets it go for. I wouldn't bother selling unless it was 5 figures at least but I guess it depends where you are etc.

 

[kai]

Be interested to see how much he lets it go for. I wouldn't bother selling unless it was 5 figures at least but I guess it depends where you are etc.

I have the survey report back next week as they are completing the work on Friday. We are only really talking about 65 square meters. NOT 65x65 (like 4225 - 1 acre.) We are discussing, 0.016 of an acre.

The impression, i got was the land is completely useless to him and he will never ever get development on it. He also has to maintain the area if i call him out due to a fallen tree etc. The cost of tree' surgeons plus he has to apply to the council each time due to trees tagging and TPO's. There are newts, bats etc all sorts of restrictions for him.

He admitted he would be glad to get shot of it (especially my plot as i have 5 large trees on the boundary line)

However, i could be very wrong. Personally, i am not willing to give more than £8K (as i simply wont get the money back as it stands without significant investment and redevelopment).

Be worth talking to your local planning department first before spending money on anything and sound them out about the change of use to domestic land.

Its classed as woodland, i am fine to have it as a domestic garden, its only for agriculture this applies. It shows this on the land registry also.

 

[soundb0y]

Yeah you may be lucky and he might be a reasonable fellow, but I don't know many farmers in the game of giving away land unless they can charge a fortune for it.

As it is such a small area he may be happy with similar to what you suggest if there's a new truck or toy he's got his eye on.

 

[clv101]

It's such a small area it's not really 'land' in the farmer's eye. I expect he'll be more than happy with £5k.

 

[Nathan]

Small useless area, I would expect 5k.

The last owner of our place paid 7k for 10mx65m in 2012 to make a healthy addition to our lawn. That’s in Shropshire.