Push the button? PM's nuclear options.

datalol-jack · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:29

Xordium said:
We'll only be targetted if people think we are governed by pansy-ass no-retaliators - fortunately we aren't so they won't.

Have you been bullied a lot at school?

jimjamuk · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:30

datalol-jack said:
What makes our lives special?

They arent but if someone wants to be the aggressor and strike first the bully should get one good smack on the nose if we are going to go down

Mr Jack · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:34

n111ck said:
So if, for example, North Korea was the only country left with nuclear weapons you don't think they would use that against the remaining non nuclear countries to take what they wanted?

No, I don't. Apart from anything else I don't think their eight, unreliable, short range nukes would do much in the face of the consequences for actually launching them and if they did launch I don't see how adding murdering millions of innocent North Koreans who had nothing to do with the actions of their despotic ruler helps.

n111ck · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:36

Mr Jack said:
No, I don't. Apart from anything else I don't think their eight, unreliable, short range nukes would do much in the face of the consequences for actually launching them and if they did launch I don't see how adding murdering millions of innocent North Koreans who had nothing to do with the actions of their despotic ruler helps.

What consequences? There would be none in your scenario.

Mr Jack · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:36

jimjamuk said:
They arent but if someone wants to be the aggressor and strike first the bully should get one good smack on the nose if we are going to go down

"The bully"? "Smack on the nose"? You're taking about millions of innocent people dying and millions more being injured. It's the perverse ultimate expression of collective punishment.

Mr Jack · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:37

n111ck said:
What consequences? There would be none in your scenario.

You do know we have more capabilities than just Trident, right?

jimjamuk · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:38

Mr Jack said:
No, I don't. Apart from anything else I don't think their eight, unreliable, short range nukes would do much in the face of the consequences for actually launching them and if they did launch I don't see how adding murdering millions of innocent North Koreans who had nothing to do with the actions of their despotic ruler helps.

Well South Korea would get it for starters if there was no comeback. These nutters walk a close to the line all the time, if there was no threat of a slap then those missiles would be flying and tanks would roll south

Torquar · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:38

Quartz said:
The purpose of retaliation is not only as a deterrent against an initial strike but to prevent a future nuclear exchange as parties will 'know' that the target will retaliate. Humanity will take a short-term hit in return for a more peaceful future.

So, immediately (or ASAP) retaliate if possible.

I agree with this. If we don't retaliate then the fear of M.A.D is gone, and the world becomes a more dangerous place.

marktruman · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:38

something that has always bothered me... if a nuclear war takes place between countries, I'm guessing it will be between country leaders falling out, right?

well then why do hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians have to die because country leaders cannot get along?

no sense or am I thinking of this wrong?

jimjamuk · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:41

Mr Jack said:
"The bully"? "Smack on the nose"? You're taking about millions of innocent people dying and millions more being injured. It's the perverse ultimate expression of collective punishment.

They're just figures of speech

But lets say we get wiped out but manage to hit back, they are going to think twice about doing the same to the next nuclear state. Sorry the millions are going to be killed - yes thats you and me probably but I'd want every missile launched for having the audacity to attack us in the UK.

jimjamuk · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:43

marktruman said:
something that has always bothered me... if a nuclear war takes place between countries, I'm guessing it will be between country leaders falling out, right?

well then why do hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians have to die because country leaders cannot get along?

no sense or am I thinking of this wrong?

Yep thats the long and short of it unfortunately. You could think of either of the two great wars consolidated into a few hours

Xordium · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:44

datalol-jack said:
Have you been bullied a lot at school?

No. Never really had that problem. I do though frequently, on the internet, find people who seem to be unable to address points and who have a tendency to resort to ad hominem attacks. Would that do instead?

Greebo · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:45

marktruman said:
something that has always bothered me... if a nuclear war takes place between countries, I'm guessing it will be between country leaders falling out, right?

well then why do hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians have to die because country leaders cannot get along?

no sense or am I thinking of this wrong?

That's was ww1 in a nutshell.

marktruman · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:47

Greebo said:
That's was ww1 in a nutshell.

well it's stupid.. put the two leaders in a boxing ring, then appoint two new leaders who get along, problem solved

n111ck · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:48

Mr Jack said:
You do know we have more capabilities than just Trident, right?

With no government left it's reasonable to assume those capabilities failed.

datalol-jack · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:50

Xordium said:
No. Never really had that problem. I do though frequently, on the internet, meet people who seem to be unable to address points and who have a tendency to resort to ad hominem attacks.

Your pansy-ass gambit misfired, sir. Hence I wondered if you were still at school, because that's about the level of game theory, on which MAD is broadly based, you seem to demonstrate. Stay away from the nukes, ol' bean! We could use a few more calculating heads and fewer strong-man types about, that's for sure.

Xordium · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:52

datalol-jack said:
Your pansy-ass gambit misfired, sir. Hence I wondered if you were still at school, because that's about the level of game theory, on which MAD is broadly based, you seem to demonstrate. Stay away from the nukes, ol' bean! We could use a few more calculating heads and fewer strong-man types about, that's for sure.

You'll have to excuse me but what the hell are you on about.

You can repeatedly say something is so all you want but it doesn't make it true. The evidence is that both sides did everything they could possibly do to avert crisis. The Cuban Missiles crisis being a good example of something that reached a crescendo and then declined because of the all to apparent consequences. But feel free to believe otherwise

Schlong&Stable · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:55

datalol-jack said:
What makes our lives special?

They are ours?

How much of a defeatist attitude do you need to ask such a question?

datalol-jack · 18 Jul 2016 at 23:56

Thompson_NCL said:
They are ours?

Continue.

lafemmefatale · 19 Jul 2016 at 00:08

This thread is great. We have the military strategic geniuses (caveat, these people may have watched too many movies and played too many video games and believe themselves to be much more knowledgeable about things they purport to have expertise in) outlining every possible nuclear war scenario the planet has to offer.