Racist! Really?

inogen said:
What bit of "it's not the caricature that's the problem" don't you get?
Click to expand...

Old Tom cartoons caricatured typical sub saharan African features and often showed the subjects in an otherwise derogatory manner in a given, normally fictitious, context.

Serena's cartoon caricature depicted her as having typical sub saharan African features..... Because thoose are her actual looks and depicted her actual behavior in a caricatured way.

Its a circular argument.... The depiction of Serena isn't a problem .. . It because it resembles some features of 'old Tom' cartoons...

Which features? The ones that caricatured the actual typical look of sub saharan black women.....

So it is about Serena and her actions being accurately depicted, in caricature, after all as she does have typical features of a sub saharan woman!



The question previously posed remains.... How do you depict Serena' s bad behaviour (and appearance) , in caricature, whilst ensuring you can't be accused of racism?

Context is key....
 
Last edited:
Caracus2k said:
The question previously posed remains.... How do you depict Serena' s bad behaviour (and appearance) , in caricature, whilst ensuring you can't be accused of racism?
Click to expand...

One way would be make sure you don't draw something that looks like an Old Tom cartoon. If you can't do that, then don't bother.
 
inogen said:
One way would be make sure you don't draw something that looks like an Old Tom cartoon. If you can't do that, then don't bother.
Click to expand...


But we are back to the circular argument.....

'Old tom' (uncle Tom) cartoons contain caricatures of people with sub saharan african ancestry and features..... Serena Williams has sub saharan African features and ancestry......

So how can you caricature her actual features without it incorporating, relevant, features also seen in 'old Tom' caricatures .

As I said if the artist had incorporated more, out of context, features in his drawing drawn from 'mammy' ' caricatures (with Mammy being the equivalent female version of the uncle Tom caricature) like say a hankerchief in her head then there might be a case to answer here.

But he didn't so I suggest there isn't in this case.

So rather then stating what a non racist caricature of Serena would not contain what would it actually contain, which of her features could be accentuated in the style of a caricature and what would it look like overall?
 
It's not a circular argument.

If you don't want to get accused of drawing a racist cartoon. Don't draw a cartoon that looks like and shares themes with the hundreds and thousands of them that go to make up a whole genre of racist cartoons.

It only becomes circular when you add the "he can't draw it without". In which case he shouldn't be drawing it in that style at all. Or perhaps if that's his style he's not the man to be drawing it.

You can't tell me the same cartoon couldn't have been drawn that wouldn't have attracted such widespread comparisons.
 
Last edited:
When the cartoonist was perceived to have made the other player look too European with light skin and hair he was berated. Seems it's impossible to win. Given the wild verbal aspersions cast about politicians' appearances and the potently exaggerated caricatures made of them without negative comment it seems there are yet again those that feel some races needed especially soft treatment. I see nothing is said about Williams and her father / coach making Black Power salutes at tournaments, if there was an equivalent White Power one and had someone at a tournament made one would it be treated with the same equanimity as those of her and her father's? Is a fatwa about to be called by the liberals on this poor cartoonist? Is satire the next thing to face the wrath or legislature of the Left? How do they balance their bile about the Williams' cartoon with their lack of concern about Corbyn's earlier support of the Kalen Ockerman, mural?
 
Inogen is effectively saying don't caricature black people because you will inevitably end up including features found in uncle tom/ mammy caricatures as these caricatures also contain caricatures of 'black features because they are, at last partially, based in reality to.

Of course uncle tom/ mammy caricatures, which were normally fictional (I. E not relating to particular people or specific events) also including other contextual non inherent elements that negatively sterotyoed black people.

Serena's cartoon mocked her actual behaviour not some abstract stereotype.

If you want to argue against all caricatures because they will inevitably contain physical, racial sterotypes of their subjects I may not agree with you but at least you are being consistent.....

But selectively arguing against caricatures for some groups because they depict features of the subject that are stereotypical of their ethnic origin is the racism of different / low expectations.
 
Last edited:
inogen said:
It's not a circular argument.

If you don't want to get accused of drawing a racist cartoon. Don't draw a cartoon that looks like and shares themes with the hundreds and thousands of them that go to make up a whole genre of racist cartoons.

It only becomes circular when you add the "he can't draw it without". In which case he shouldn't be drawing it in that style at all. Perhaps he's not the man to be drawing it.
Click to expand...

She looks nothing like “Mammy two shoes” from Tom and Jerry in that caricature, if that’s what you mean, (not to me anyway).
Personally I’m getting giddy from the same ol’ same ol’, I’m jumping off, and looking for a fresh discussion.
 
Uncle Petey said:
Oh, well that clears that up.
My bad.
Click to expand...

;)


Chris Wilson said:
I see nothing is said about Williams and her father / coach making Black Power salutes at tournaments, if there was an equivalent White Power one and had someone at a tournament made one would it be treated with the same equanimity
Click to expand...

Perhaps because the black power movement grew out of the civil rights movement, striving for racial equivalence and individual equality, whereas white power is all about racial supremacy and discrimination?

Maybe, yaknow.
 
doodah said:
Why is Osaka white with blonde hair :p?
Click to expand...

She's not.

Osaka does have a large blonde streak, as shown in this photo:

osaka_title_759.jpg


Knight has over-exaggerated this feature, giving the impression that Osaka's hair is completely blonde. So that's strike one.

But when I compared the skin colours for each person in the picture, I found nothing to support the claim that Osaka is shown to be white.

41661049_10156415096611327_9169191780329979904_o.jpg


Top: Williams. Middle: Osaka. Bottom: Ramos. Osaka is very clearly brown here. This is so obvious, it's clear to the naked eye.
 
Caracus2k said:
Inogen is effectively saying don't caricature black people because you will inevitably end up including features found in uncle tom/ mammy caricatures as these caricatures also contain caricatures of 'black features because they are, at last partially, based in reality to.
Click to expand...

No. I'm definitely not saying that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom