Rafa's Rotating - Myth or Not?

[BaZ87]

If we're going to play someone in the hole or in a deeper position why not play someone that can unlock defences like Yossi? It doesn't make sense to me.

Thats a good question but not one that Kuyt decides, he gets picked to play there and he gives 100% and like i said he still manages to chip in with a similar amount of goals as our other strikers have (while they were playing right up top), which is why i would pick him ahead of Crouch.

As for why not playing Benayoun there; i guess its down to the lack of goals he'll get but it would be a decent option to see at sometime.

 

[BaZ87]

Couldnt' agree with that any more.
A perfect example is last year, Crouch banging in a hat-trick then not playing in the next game. After all... that's how you keep team morale isn't it?

What you been smoking Nokkon? After banging in his hat-trick he played the next game and the next game after that too

 

[BaZ87]

I'm sure he was dropped. I could have sworn as much.
However, it's not just crouch. He does it all the time. Players play well, get dropped. There's no consistency there.

Thats just not true, as pointed out in the article in the OP we kept a pretty steady core of our side (just as many players as you and more than Chelsea, we had injuries too btw) and it was on on the wings and our 2nd striker that were 'rotated'.

And Crouch wasn't dropped after the hat-trick and nor was Torres for the Pompey game, Rafa left him out because he hadn't had a full training session (1 half-session) since returning from the Internationals and didn't think he was fully prepared (i personally would have played him btw).

 

[BaZ87]

that's an excuse, not a reason. this season torres is your best player, one of the most dangerous players in england on current form and he's what 23/24? he should be starting nigh on every match. The danger for Liverpool now is that Benitez takes the criticism personally and rotates for the big payload of being acclaimed as a tactical genius when it comes off rather than just because it's necessary.

he said it before the game so its a reason not an excuse, whether that decision was right or wrong is a different matter.

 

[BaZ87]

64 changes in 12 games. Don't believe he rotates for a minute.

Which includes 2 cl qualifiers and a Carling Cup match where near enough the whole side was changed (which takes up 36 of those changes (changes for those matches then changing the side back)).

People that use rotation as the reason why we drew today or our performances over the last few games are just looking for an easy excuse, as proven in the op to use the excuse of an unstable side for performances is simply wrong, Utd made just as many changes (regardless of the reasons for those changes) throughout last season and over the last 4-5 matches yet they have managed to win those games. Too often managers get the **** for under-performing players and this is a case of it happening again. Our back four and keeper have played together countless times before as have our midfield and won on many of those occasions, the players simply haven't been performing over the last few games and we've really missed both Agger and Alonso.

Both goals we conceded today were down to sloppy defending from our fullbacks who both have played reguarly this season. Other than our defence (which like i say have played together before and is our best back 4 atm) our generally play wasn't too bad, we scored twice and created some decent chances to have scored more.

 

[BaZ87]

How many changes today from midweek? Like has been said MANY times before, United only make changes due to injuries. 99% of the time you can predict our lineup from the players available.

Was either Giggs or Tevez injured midweek? I suppose they must have been otherwise they would have played.

Aurelio was out for Arbeloa, Sissoko for Mascherano, Pennant for Benayoun, Leto for Riise and Crouch for Voronin. Out of those Aurelio is injured and Pennant was suspended for the CL game and was always coming back in and the other 3 that were left out were dropped (because they played ****) not rotated and didn't even make the bench. But that won't get a mention, Rafa rotated 5 players.

 

[BaZ87]

The manager got the praise for our European Cup success. He also got most of the praise for getting us to our other cup finals. Why should he get praise when we win but not get questioned when we lose? It's always the players fault when we lose, never his tactis or whacky substitutions. It's his job to pick the team, motivate the players and get them to perform as a team and it's just not happening. He must accept some of the blame.

Of course he should get a share of the blame (and said that himself) but you can't blame rotation for individual mistakes from Finnan (along with Carra our most consistent player for 3 years) and Arbeloa (arguably our best player this season), as i said above both players have been playing throughout this season.

Like i said above, without the 2 cl qualifiers and the CC game we've made 28 changes in 9 matches and had just as many (if not more) injuries than most other sides.

 

[BaZ87]

Do you not think one of the main reasons Arbeloa has been (arguably) our best player this season is because he has not been rotated?

His excellent performances vs Barca were down to him playing reguarly as well?

Who has been rotated? Our left sided midfielder and our strikers, other than that the rest of our 'rotations' have been for injuries, Carra, Agger and Finnan (and Arbeloa as you said) have all played when fit as have Gerrard, Alonso and Pennant.

Answering your question, it may well have helped but Hyypia has played reguarly since Agger's injury and he's looked terrible.

 

[BaZ87]

arbeloa hasnt been our best however i do think hes a very good all round player, i think its obvious that the loss of agger and xavi have contributed to our bad form with international breaks contributing to this also ... again nothing sinister is happening other than poor all round form

Exactly just like Chelsea and Utd's bad patches but there's was down to injuries/suspensions but Andy Gray has got everbody thinkings ours is because of rotation and we've not had any injuries.

 

[BaZ87]

Agger has been rotated, Hyypia brought in against Toulouse (away) and against Sunderland.

Pennant has been rotated, Benayoun was brought in for him against Toulouse (away), Toulouse (home) and against Reading.

Finnan also didn't play for 3 games after the Porto match.

Along with the 3 other positions you mention (left mid and up front which frankly have been all over the place in terms of selection) it's clear Rafa refuses to play a settled 11 every game barring injuries/suspensions, something which United and Chelsea do the majority of the time.

I wasn't counting the CL qualifiers or the Carling Cup game because then the likes of Utd would be rotating too and they don't do that (Giggs and Tevez must have been injured midweek ). Other than those games there's been 1 'rotation' other than the positions ive mentioned, Agger vs Sunderland (Finann was and still is (since January(ish)) been carrying an injury and wouldnt have started the season had Aurelio been fit).

And did you really go through every line-up to look for those changes? If you did then you've got way too much spare time.

 

[BaZ87]

actually how long do you think he'll get? i'd say 2008/2009 season. i know fergie had longer but football has changed and more immediacy is required these days.

Houllier had 6 years, we traditionally give our managers time and Benitez will be given the same (the CL bought him more).

You have to remember this is the first season he's had the money to compete with yourselves and Chelsea and if we win our game in hand we go 1 point behind you (and clear of Chelsea) and still unbeaten in the league, where's the crisis people are making out we're in?

 

[BaZ87]

genuine question but was there really a big difference between ours and your net spend in the period from summer 04 to summer 06? fair enough our squad was superior but we've both done some rebuilding since then. anyway i don't mean to bash at him and while i wouldn't call it crunch time or anything i really wouldn't think he'd be given 7 years in todays football climate. though as you say winning the champions league is a very big start.

I couldn't tell you if there was much of a difference but i would imagine you spent a bit more. Like you say your squad in '04 was far more complete than that of the one Rafa inherited and where he may have spent £35m it was spent on 8-9 players where the likes of yourselves spent £25m(ish) on Rooney alone. Our actual net spend this summer wasn't a great deal more than previous years, the difference being that rather than having to buy 8 or 9 players (to replace the players we had to sell to raise that cash) we only signed 3-4 first team players.

I find the amount of **** he gets (particuarly from Liverpool fans, expect it from the rest) staggering, he took a squad that was barely capable of qualifying for the CL and won it in his first season and has since won the FA cup and reached another CL final yet he gets critisised for not being able to instantly compete with Utd and Chelsea when they've had, in Utds case, years of spending top money to build a squad and in Chelseas case they spent around £200m in the space of 3 seasons. People (Mancs particuarly) seem to forget that Fergie had 5-6 years of breaking record transfer fees before he won any trophy (of importance) let alone the league, im sure Rafa will be give at least another 2 seasons (after this) and it will take us not qualifying for the CL (not likely to happen) for him to be sacked before then.

 

[BaZ87]

Pallister definantly was a record fee and i think Ince (not sure about Ince) was too. Anyway the point was that he was spending top money on players he wanted and not getting what he could afford.


edit\ just had a look and Ince wasn't.

 

[BaZ87]

mate, we had djemba djemba, kleberson and bellion fighting for a place in our first team squad. haha, speak not of having a cack team

You had those fighting to get on the bench, we had Traore in our 11 so i win that one

As for the rest of what you've said, there all fair comments but our Yanks are taking a pretty much hands-off role regarding the football side of the club and Parry has both persuaded Rafa to stay on several occasions when he had offers to go to Real Madrid (and Inter) and also shown huge patience with Houllier in the past so i can't see him changing anything soon.

As long as we're qualifying for the CL and come 2 seasons down the road (hopefully this season onwards) genuinely challenging for the league then i can't see him having anything to worry about.

 

[BaZ87]

In England, Rafa has NOT shown he's capable of competing on multiple fronts, that's the issue...

How many years did it take Fergie to prove he can compete on multiple fronts? And like i said above he had the cash to compete from day 1.